DIY Amps

midifarm · February 26th, 2009, 09:13 AM

Well this economy sucks at the moment, leaving my liquid cash lower than normal. What I want is way too expensive. I have considered building my own amp. I know a couple of guys that have and they sound pretty nice. I know there are kits and such out there. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience building their own? Outcomes? What are ya'lls thoughts on this? I know there's no warranty if I build it, but it'll cost me a third compared to what I'd pay in a shop. HELP!

PorkRollExpress · February 26th, 2009, 09:33 AM

I'd love to do this, but I have no space or time.

I have tinkered in the past, but not recently. It's fairly straight forward.

Regarding the warranty: You're talking about point-to-point or turret construction. unless you damage a componenet with poor soldering skills, you don't have the issues you do with a mass produced amp.

Printed circuitboards, microwave soldering machines, transistors, cold
solder joints, cheap plastic parts, etc, are the things that go wrong with production stuff. You will not have to worry about most of them.

You DO, however, have to worry about electrocuting yourself.

Heed that warning.

midifarm · February 26th, 2009, 09:41 AM

LOL yeah the giant transformers sitting on a metal chassis has some concern for me. I'm considering a DR103 clone. The 50 watt version, while more practical is only $50 cheaper. I would love a real DR103, but even the modern ones are $2k. Even an SA212 is around $2k.

Shades of Blue · February 26th, 2009, 09:44 AM

Yes the economy does suck. I have stuck with building two of my very own strats which are much cheaper than new guitars.

Amps...I'll leave those alone for now lol

Celeste · February 26th, 2009, 09:56 AM

Unless you are sourcing used parts, building your own tube amp is not a money saving proposition. Unless you compare what you build to a boutique builder.

Tube amps have voltages that can reach out and touch you in ways you do not want to be touched. There is very much a learning curve in construction, parts quality and parts sourcing. I did not see anything to indicate you have any back ground with a soldering iron.

I would suggest you start of with something simple and a kit. If you want a copy of an existing amp, Weber , Marsh Allen and others offer kits of copies or slightly modified circuits. My understanding is the Webers documentation is very lean, but help can be had through the online forum, Marsh's docs are good as I recall.

If you want something different, look at AX84.com and Doberman kits. The P1, HO P1Ex and SEL are closely related, so one could buy a HO kit, build it as a P1, then mod it to a HO so you get more learning out of one kit. Lots of help is available on line at the AX84 forum.

I have no affiliation with any of these companies, but to frequent the AX84 board.

rocks · February 26th, 2009, 10:33 AM

Building an amp from scratch is easily more expensive than buying one already made, especially at the wattage you are looking at building. Your best bet would be to find a used peavey classic 30 or something similar, they can still be found at good prices.

midifarm · February 26th, 2009, 03:02 PM

I have a bias against Peavey. Essentially I'm looking for that Hiwatt sound. The couple clones I've seen are at about $800. That's easily 1/3 sale price. If I was to build a small 15W combo I definitely reconsider.

Offshore Angler · February 26th, 2009, 05:18 PM

I agree. building a good amp will cost more than buying one. Plus, its addicting.

Celeste · February 26th, 2009, 05:44 PM

A lot of the Hiwatt sound was the Partridge transformers. Your going to pay a lot to get one of those or have someone like Heybour wind you a clone. Were it me, I would look into toroidal transformers. They can get you the sepc's for less money if you shop carefully. Antec could likely do it for $115 and a PT for $50. That is really a good price on iron for a 100 watt amp. this guy did it with toroids http://chejok.freecoolsite.com/

Bullitt · March 4th, 2009, 08:26 PM

Midifarm, A friend of mine builds Hiwatt clones, he may be able to help you, he's really a great amp builder.

John

Sprocket · March 5th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I agree. building a good amp will cost more than buying one. Plus, its addicting.

Really??? Seriously?
You can build most Tweed and Marshall clones for bout 1/2 the price you could buy the real deal.

Im currently trying to rebuild a Silverface Champ AA764...I was thinking of buying a kit, but Ive still got all the original parts and wanna source my own...but Im looking for a "bill of materials" so I can source my own, I just dont know where to find it. Any suggestions???

Celeste · March 5th, 2009, 04:18 PM

If you are comparing to collectible classics, then yes yo can build for less. The price has nothing to do with the parts that go into them. But it is unlikely you can build for less then a new amp with comparable quality. Even the kits are a pretty good deal if you figure in shipping from several different places and knowing you will not forget something small and have to pay shipping on something stupid. The problem with kits is of course you do not control the quality of the parts in it.

midifarm · March 5th, 2009, 05:15 PM

Ah the dilemmas!

Offshore Angler · March 6th, 2009, 07:42 AM

Seriously. It will cost AT LEAST as much to bulid most amps as it would be to buy them new. I've done it, my friends have done it. If you can scratch build you might save money. Problem is too, that once you start building you always start upgrading iron and speakers and that will push the cost up as well.

But when you get one you'll have a real birch cab, a nice MM transformer, a great speaker, and all the things that contribute to a good sounding amp. So it will cost the same or more, but you have a better result.

midifarm · March 6th, 2009, 08:37 AM

I just want something that's very warm, clean and loud. I could care less if it has a dirty channel or not. I want as little break up as possible and thought by DIY, I might save some $$$ over buying a Hiwatt or something similar. Any suggestions?

Celeste · March 6th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midifarm

I just want something that's very warm, clean and loud. I could care less if it has a dirty channel or not. I want as little break up as possible and thought by DIY, I might save some $$$ over buying a Hiwatt or something similar. Any suggestions?

So many question are not answered in that. What is "as little break up as possible"? Maybe like Bass players do, real high power SS power amp and a cool tube pre is the way to go. My bet is that would be to sterile for you.
Is 50 watts enough? 100?
If 50 look at the AX84 50watt core amp and put the core clean pre in front of it.
If 100, that DR103 power section looks like not a bad place to start. pick a pre to put in front of the PI and there you go.

The metal parts are going to be the biggest cost ( well tubes are not cheap, but you can hunt off brands and pulls).
Chassis will likely be over $70. I am experimenting with just using 1/4 aluminum plate as the chassis and separate front and back plates of 1/8 aluminum. That cuts my chassis costs by half, but increases my labor, and I have machine tools to work it.
For the 100 watt build I already suggest inexpensive transformer set. For the 50W a hammond 1750M OT and Antek 300V PT will set you back less then $100.
The AX84 documentation has BOM's so look there for an idea of al the things that go into an amp

johnreardon · March 6th, 2009, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Seriously. It will cost AT LEAST as much to bulid most amps as it would be to buy them new. I've done it, my friends have done it. ....

I agree if the main principle is to save money, then forget it. IMO much better off buying one of the reasonable priced valve amps around.

If money isn't the object, then of course, if you have the skills, you can build an amp that may be better than one you can buy.

I haven't built an amp, only a cabinet. I spent a fair bit on materials and speaker, but to be honest, I could have bought a cab better built than what I did, and then put the speaker in it.

Torren61 · March 9th, 2009, 07:12 AM

I built the Gilmore Jr. from Guytronix. Low Watt Guitar Amp Kits for Recording or Bedroom Use I ordered every option and received the amp for $419 including shipping. The amp can be either 1/2 watt or 2 watts. 2 Watts is very loud in a bedroom setting. I built mine to sound clean like a Fender but I ordered the optional Marshall and Vox mods.
The amp took me about 18 hours to build but it was my first build and I was taking my time. I have been experimenting with running Guitar Rig 3 through the front and it sounds amazing. I can pull up distortion and delay and everything that GR3 has to offer. They also have a free 1/2 hour demo so you can try it out. NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : Home : Demo Versions
I just ordered another kit from a Revolver Amplification in Cabot, Arkansas. This one is a Fender Champ clone. The price was $408 delivered. This is a list of materials: 5F1A Amp Kit
Bill of Materials

Qty Part Number Description
1 Populated Board Populated Board
1 Chassis 5F1 Chassis
1 FTCHO-5M Tweed -- 8? tap
1 FTCP-59 '59 Tweed -- 330-0-330 --
NO CT on the 6.3V winding -- 5V winding
1 JJ 5AR4 Rectifier
1 JJ 6V6GT Vacuum tube
1 JJ 12AX7 Vacuum tube
1 PC-CUT Power cord, cut end
1 CCW-5F1 Kit, cloth covered wire, 5F1
( 4 ft. Green, 3 ft. Red, Black, White)
1 CHK-11 Knob, black, chicken head, flat top
1 CF-2 Fuse, 2 amp
2 SKT8 Tube socket, octal
1 SKT9 Tube socket, 9 pin
2 TR-8 Clamp, octal
All Bolt-SKT Machine Screws
4 Spacer-SKT Spacer, nylon
1 RJP-2 RCA jack, chassis mount, diamond fiber base
1 RP-C RCA plug, male, cable mount
1 FH-2 Fuseholder
2 CB-1.5 Bolt, chassis, tweed style, chrome
1 PL-2 Pilot light, red
1 6N-4 Strain relief
2 PJP-S Chassis mount phone jack, shorting
2 Small Grommet 9/16" OD Chassis Grommets
1 Wire Nut Wire Nut, small
2 #8 sheet metal screw Fiber Board Mounting Screws
1 Pot Potentiometer, 1 meg audio with switch

Sub Total $396.44
Shipping $23.00
Total $419.44

I'll let you know how it sounds.

midifarm · March 9th, 2009, 08:04 AM

Awesome, it sounds like you found a fun and addicting hooby! Cheers

Torren61 · March 9th, 2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midifarm

Awesome, it sounds like you found a fun and addicting hooby! Cheers

yes (yikes!)

gldtp99 · March 12th, 2009, 05:34 AM

I've built several Hiwatt clones, as well as many other types of amps---- as my friend Bullitt stated.
I find it interesting that you've expressed an interest in high powered, high headroom amps and you've received links to several types of low powered amps.
I only sell amps to people in my immediate geographical area (N. Texas), so i can only offer you my opinions.
For Hiwatt-type amps i'd suggest Reeves: www.reevesamps.com - Home

Reeves offers a Custom 50 (Hiwatt DR504 circuit) with Power Scaling along with different 100 watt Hiwatt-type models.
These amps aren't cheap but they are high quality.
For a less expensive option a BF or early SF Fender Showman (8 ohms output only) or Dual Showman (4 ohms output only) head is a great sounding, powerful, high headroom amp----great big clean tone and a great platform for pedals.
Some of my Hiwatt clone customers have played my '67 BF Showman head thru 2x12 and 4x12 cabs w/pedals and they all liked the big Fender very much---- but not enough to give up the Hiwatt-type amps i built for them---- i like both Hiwatt-type amps and Fender amps (and many other kinds of tube amps,too).
I've recently built several lower wattage amps and IMO they can sound very good and can get reasonably loud, but they just can't produce the depth of tone that a higher wattage amp can---- even when the big amp is played at low volume levels---- there's no substitute for Power-

-- but the reality is that many folks have to have low powered amps to play at home without pissing everyone off.
If you have a situation where you can use a high powered amp without social problems then a 50/100 watt Hiwatt or an 85/100 watt Fender Showman head would serve you well.
It doesn't sound like you currently have the skills to build/DIY one yourself, so this is why i've made the suggestions i did..................gldtp99

PS--- a BF or early SF Fender Twin Reverb might be just what you're looking for---- one of the all time classic workhorse "big" amps------ 85 or 100 watts, 2x12 combo, Fender reverb----many consider them too loud and too heavy nowdays (they are loud and heavy) so prices probably aren't totally out of sight--check out a "real" one, not the RI's

Offshore Angler · March 12th, 2009, 09:25 AM

Good sounds gldtp, but honestly, a Twin reverb is a fairly difficult build, probably not a good first try candidate.

PeteG45 · March 12th, 2009, 02:00 PM

Is it reasonable to expect that a hand built amp, such as the AX84 P1 Extreme (stock kit plus bias mod) if built carefully, will sound better than say an Epiphone Valve Jr. head or a Blackheart Little Giant head (through the same external speaker cabinet)?

I am a bedroom player and I've got an itch to build one of these but if the tone isn't going to be there then there isn't any reason to build it.

Offshore Angler · March 12th, 2009, 03:57 PM

Pete You build amps because

1) It's fun
2) You can customize it to your specs.
3) It' fun
4) You'll be able to work on it yourself.

When you build them yourself you'll learn the parts like drivers and phase inverters, learn about cathode biased circuits, and lots of other cool stuff.

Honestly, there is enough great sound stuff on the market today that you don't have to build your own. You do it for a hobby.

And if you have a HRD you can gut it and make it into a good sounding, reliable amp!

There's a blossoming cottage industry here in the States where guys are taking broken Hot Rods and using them as donors for 5E3's and other cool amps.

midifarm · March 12th, 2009, 08:18 PM

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to check out some of the links and the plethora of products out there. The pedalboard is being built, then it needs something to sing through.

PeteG45 · March 12th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Offshore, I've definitely learned a lot just researching all of this. I picked up "The Guitar Amp Handbook" and I can't believe how much I've already learned from it. I'm probably going to go ahead with some amp project this summer, whether its a kit build or a gut and rebuild only time will tell.

gldtp99 · March 13th, 2009, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Good sounds gldtp, but honestly, a Twin reverb is a fairly difficult build, probably not a good first try candidate.

I'm sorry if i wasn't clear--- i meant that he could buy a Twin Reverb, not build one------ i don't think any high powered guitar amp is a good first build project.
I was suggesting that a Twin Reverb or Showman head would likely be less expensive than a quality Hiwatt clone kit (VHR) or a Reeves Hiwatt-type prebuilt head. He seemed to express an interest in hi power, hi headroom amps.
One advantage of a soft economy is that deals can be found on good, used equipment. Classic big Fender tube amps (BF/early SF) are a lot of amp for the $$$ and i think they sound very good.
One SF Bassman 100 tube head that i rebuilt for the studio across the hall from my workshop has been used for mega-hrs for both bass and guitar duties---- lots of players love the way it sounds---- and he got it for dirt cheap----i like my BF '67 Showman head better but i wouldn't let it go for anywhere near as cheap as he got the Bassman 100 for.
I recently got a SF/MV Twin Reverb in on a partial trade---- i'll go thru it and it will make some local player a good amp for not much $$$---i'm not trying to sell this Twin to the OP, we live way too far away from each other---- but a similar amp found near him might be worth checking out for him if he's interested in a big, hi headroom amp...................gldtp99

Offshore Angler · March 13th, 2009, 07:39 AM

GLDTP-good call. I agree completely,

midifarm · March 13th, 2009, 08:34 AM

Gotcha!

Torren61 · March 17th, 2009, 06:48 AM

Building an amp from a quality kit is easy and not nearly as expensive as indicated above. The quality you get when building your own from a kit far exceeds most anything you can get off the rack. Point to point wiring and Mercury Magnetics transformers are not generally going to be included in a $400 amp but that's what it costs to build a modest amp from a kit.

As far as the hazards involved, you're building from a new kit that has not been energized. If you follow the instructions, you have nothing to worry about when you do fire it up. Now getting into an amp that has been previously energized requires bleeding the capacitors (and of course unplugging the amp).

The satisfaction that I get every time I play through my amp is uplifting because I know what the quality is of the amp. Plus, there wasn't a dude named Lon Dam Dong in the Szcecuan Province taking home a paycheck for assembling my amp.

Most things are a bit scary when you do them for the first time but building your own amp is cool. I have a Champ clone that should be here by this weekend. It will be my second build. Here is one place that sells kits: Low Watt Guitar Amp Kits for Recording or Bedroom Use

I have no affiliation with them other than I was a customer. I was very satisfied with the quality of the kit, the ease of building, the clear instructions and the support after the sale. I built the Gilmore Jr. I ordered every option including the "M" and "V" mods (although I built it to sound clean like a Fender and left it that way) and the whole thing delivered to my door was just over $400.

(I just realized that I think I've said all of this before, D'oh!)