Multi effects VS. individual pedals

[barellano]

I'm currently using a Boss multi effects pedal, but have been thinking about switching to an individual stomp box setup. I originally thought it would easier since I have every Boss effect available to me in one pedal, but I've found it be a alot more than I actually need, and overly complicated. I also can't seem to get a distortion tone that I really like.

I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on multi effects vs. individual pedals.

[Jim Sams]

I have never have a Multi Effect unit with a distortion setting that sounded as good as a TS-9 or a MEnatone Foxy Brown....
It's descrete pedals for me.

[Sprocket]

Multi effects pedals are more of an emulation than the actual effect....great for new rock/metal...not so good for classic vintage tones.

[xashanx]

ive been using multi fx for almost 4 years live now, ive noticed that even if you store your desired tone in em. it gets really hard when you get in to halls with really bad acoustics. havent tried my stomp boxes yet as i need to set up a pedal board and buy some cables and multi power suplpy and a noise supressor yet. but im guessing that individual stomp boxes are easier to manage. you just have to go set them up according to the acoustic way early and you'll be good to go. i think. btw i've got rat distotion, marshall guv'nor, boss - ds1, fl2, oc3 pedals... im planning to use my boss GT-5 as a effects unit when i get my pedal board set up. like for dealys, reverbs and wah.. what would you guys suggest as 'must have pedals' ?

im thinking of getting a electro harmonix metal muff pedal too.

[intoflatlines]

All multi pedals I used sounded OK for low volume messing around but when played loud they sounded fake. It was nice to have all the effects that are fun to mess around with but I would never buy.

Must have pedals, I would recommend a compressor, overdrive, distortion (muff for me), and a reverb.

[still_fiddlin]

I've heard good multi-effects setups, but it's obvious to me that it takes a fair investment of time to get them where they sound good in a lot of different ways that are pretty easy to achieve with a mix of pedals. The plus is that once you get a sound, it's easy to recreate. Me, I just don't have the time or $.

The other thing about multi-fx is that there some risk that you'll suddenly be with no effects, and a spare one (exactly the same, I suppose) gets doubly spendy. If I lose one distortion, od, whatever, I can adjust. I do carry a backup power supply, though.

[barellano]

My main beef with the multi is the distortion/overdrive. You're right that when turned up loudly, it has that digital sound. I have a 120W solid state Crate, and I'm honestly not a big fan of the on board distortions either. Anyone use a relatively similar solid state and have any favorite distortion/overdrive pedals for classic rock/modern rock tones?

[sevycat]

Individual pedals for me, some of the reasons are already listed.

[maddog444]

I've used both. Individual stompboxes are my preference. A whole lot simpler & cleaner...

[phildobbin]

Always go for individual stomp boxes in my opinion. You knows what you're getting, can tweak them a lot easier, they're generally bullet proof (never had a Boss yet that broke on me) & you've more control over your sound. Multi-FX have a mind of their own: last thing you need ;-)...

[Poseidon9447]

Multi effects are cheaper, they are a good place to start to find what effects work for you. I have a digitech RP90 and for under $100 it is great. I have also recently been buying individual pedals, I like their ease of adjust ability better. For delay I think you have to go with a separate pedal so you can really fine tune it. Chorus and reverbs are good in multi effects. Distortions are hit and miss, some great others not so. I have a big muff USA and have done a side by side test with my RP90 and it does a good job with it, hard to tell them apart. Another thing I like about the RP90 is I can use it as a volume or wah pedal.
My current board has both pedals and my RP90 on it. It is very versatile that way. I have my pedals dialed in how I like them, and it I feel like something different I have the RP90.

[firesgt911]

I went the POD route for about 5 years. I could never get the tone I wanted, and always thought it was me. Then I started to move away from digital, and have been more inspired to play because I am finding MY tone. Multi-effects just aren't for me. They are a good, inexpensive way to try out a lot of different sounds, though.

[Scott L]

Can't remember all the boxes I've used over the years and still have a fair share.

The Boss ME-70 that just came out looks like something I would not mind owning - I like the simple switches and knobs.

[barellano]

Great input guys, thanks. But let me ask you all a question. When gigging, do you bend down frequently between songs to tweak pedal settings? I prefer to have different distortion tones for different songs, and it seems like a lot to have to do with single pedals. That's one big plus for the multi effects. Or do you have multiples of the same pedal with different settings dialed in? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid series of questions.

[firesgt911]

A lot of people do run more than 1 of the same pedal. I just have different dirt boxes to get different types of distortion. I find it easier than trying to remember which band what sound is in.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Scott L

Can't remember all the boxes I've used over the years and still have a fair share.

The Boss ME-70 that just came out looks like something I would not mind owning - I like the simple switches and knobs.

Hehe ScottL...we already own all of that
"COSM" is built into the MicroBR.

[Namelyguitar]

Get individuals! With that said, I just bought a Fender G-DEC for practice.

[barellano]

So I ditched the multi effects pedal and bought a Visual Sound Jekyll and Hyde, H2O and MXR Dyna Comp to start my stomp box collection. I'm still messing around with all of the levels on the J&H and H20, but the tone is far superior to anything I could get out of the ME. Really happy so far. And the Dyna Comp is unbelievable. I love it. +1 for individual pedals!

[illinoisboy]

I'm currently using a boss multi that I picked up off craig's list for $100. Not the same as individuals, but a whole lot cheaper. I have had a lot of pedals over the years, and either traded or just sold most of them. The only ones I still have are a morley bad horsie wah (yes, I was one of those kids who thought he could be Steve Vai), a MXR phase 90 and a tube screamer.

[adaptable]

I think it depends on the effect. Overdrive/distortion/tone shaping pedals & pre-amps are effects where you tweak the controls a lot are hard to duplicate digitally by DSP oriented multi-effects units. Chorus/Delay/Phase/Reverb on the other hand, tend to sound pretty good on most multi-effect systems.

My Line6 Podxt plugged into a Roland Jazz Chorus or Bose PS/1 sounds pretty convincing in live venues, but in the studio, you can hear the digital-ness in the attacks and long sustaining notes/chords.

[phildobbin]

Originally Posted by adaptable

I think it depends on the effect. Overdrive/distortion/tone shaping pedals & pre-amps are effects where you tweak the controls a lot are hard to duplicate digitally by DSP oriented multi-effects units. Chorus/Delay/Phase/Reverb on the other hand, tend to sound pretty good on most multi-effect systems.

My Line6 Podxt plugged into a Roland Jazz Chorus or Bose PS/1 sounds pretty convincing in live venues, but in the studio, you can hear the digital-ness in the attacks and long sustaining notes/chords.

Nowadays as well, there has been a much welcomed (IMO) switch back to analogue sounds rather than digital. Last album I recorded back in January, we spent a lot of time getting away from that digital/COSM sound & using old stompboxes, valve (tube) amps & the like.

Recording again at the moment & employing the same set of values. Just sounds so much better to my ears... YMMV

[Scott L]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

Hehe ScottL...we already own all of that
"COSM" is built into the MicroBR.

I'm loving the Micro, put @ 3 1/2 hours on it today, but the ME-70 I want for simplicity while hooked up.

[ToneRanger]

Originally Posted by barellano

Great input guys, thanks. But let me ask you all a question. When gigging, do you bend down frequently between songs to tweak pedal settings? I prefer to have different distortion tones for different songs, and it seems like a lot to have to do with single pedals. That's one big plus for the multi effects. Or do you have multiples of the same pedal with different settings dialed in? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid series of questions.

One of the reason I like individual pedals is because I like to tweak on the fly - it's easier for me to lean over and twist a knob than to try and bank and scroll on a "multi." That said, I do have a number of different dirt boxes (six to be exact) that get me everywhere in the neighborhood of a Dumble to a Vintage Plexi to a Hot Rodded EVH sounding Marshall to Fuzz - and I can combine them on the fly as well. If I want to kick them all on and make it sound like the world is blowing up I can do that too ...

[Scott L]

Originally Posted by ToneRanger

One of the reason I like individual pedals is because I like to tweak on the fly - it's easier for me to lean over and twist a knob than to try and bank and scroll on a "multi.........

That is the appeal to me of the Boss - dedicated knobs.

I was at the NY Amp Show a few weeks back and the Digitech RP100 was demoed there - an amazing machine, but the owner's manual must be a foot thick..

[orcslayer]

I agree pedals are more versatile re on the fly adjustments. Some Multi effects units are large & complicated. However, I discovered a very small, seductive unit (no bigger than a pack of smokes) that I have been unable to let go since I can carry in my shirt pocket & I get a variety of good effects from it.

It has 56 presets, & you can create 56 of your own user sounds by modding the presets (which can be reset). It also has a basic rythym machine with bass & a phrase trainer & a tuner.

It's the Korg Pandora PX3, which is about two generations behind the current one, but still works well for me. I run my guitar thru it then into a clean amp.

I made a small stand for it (or it will sit on your amp). No foot pedal, you have to select the effect by scrolling. But you can arrange your 10 - 15 favourite sounds in order at the start. So they're easy to dial in fast. For example my 99% of my playing is covered by the following which I created:

clean w delay
chorus
reverb (wet)
trem
echotrem
phaser
flanger
funky (autowah)
R&B
Rock
Hvy Rock
Fuzz

To get "your sounds" you have to spend a few hours tweaking the presets & renaming to your preference. Once done tho, the unit is relaible & sounds good especially for modulation effects, delays, etc. Distortions aren't bad & feature a few based on the sounds of our heroes ( like "EC", Jimi", "BB", etc).

I've tried pedals, but this little unit is so handy I can't give it up! Google it for pics & descriptions. It's cheap on ebay (saw one for $75, wheras I paid $320 Cdn when it was first out in 2000). As I said, there are two newer generations, but the PX3 is fine for me.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by phildobbin

Nowadays as well, there has been a much welcomed (IMO) switch back to analogue sounds rather than digital. Last album I recorded back in January, we spent a lot of time getting away from that digital/COSM sound & using old stompboxes, valve (tube) amps & the like.

Recording again at the moment & employing the same set of values. Just sounds so much better to my ears... YMMV

I think it has more to do with the engineer, really. I mean, think about it. You put in the old tube amps, mike them, and then go into ProTools or Sonar and end up with a digital signal path anyway. By the time you add all the LFO's for tails or whatever and add .vst plug-ins what's left isn't very analog. Sure, If I was doing AAA into a Neve I could probably tell the difference, but in today's world of DDD recording that usually gets to the consumer's ears via an iPod or CD...

Lately I've heard stuff ( sadly, not mine!) from AmpFX units that is totally mind-blowing tone-wise. I could spend a month trying out ribbons and placement and never get the recorded sound that good using an amp.

And then there's the listener. If it's the jingle for the local Ford dealer coming through TV speakers nobody's really getting too hung up on the nuances as they listen. Good enough is good enough. The object is to do it as fast and cheap as possible with it sounding good.

Finally, it all comes down to composition and execution in the end. Well written and played on modellers will always sound better than conversely on a tube amp.

And as I've said before, I've never had anybody want to drag a Steinway to a gig to get "true piano tone"!

And I'll bet I haven't heard a vocal without digital reverb in long time.

I think a lot of people are confusing modelling with MutliFX and that's where the disconnect is. Two completely different deals. Lot's of famous players use analog multiFX units, Gilmore comes to mind for example.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Finally, it all comes down to composition and execution in the end. Well written and played on modellers will always sound better than conversely on a tube amp.

Thats almost a contradiction to the previous sentence.

Id really like to hear somebody like Linkin Park go for a more analog tone, guitar wise...as that could only help.
And being our resident old guy, how do you feel about todays new rock? Does it really sound better? "Always"? Analog vs digital and guitar tones only, of course.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

Thats almost a contradiction to the previous sentence.

Id really like to hear somebody like Linkin Park go for a more analog tone, guitar wise...as that could only help.
And being our resident old guy, how do you feel about todays new rock? Does it really sound better? "Always"? Analog vs digital and guitar tones only, of course.

I don't see it as a contradiction, but whatever.

Today's rock is different. Not better, not worse. Just different. Some great music is being recorded by Greenday, My Chemical Romance and others.

You have to remember, back in the 60's and 70's - sure we had the Stones, the Who, Jimi and the rest, but we also had The 1910 Fruitgum Company. There was good and bad just like today.

The biggest difference I see is that back then anything was fair game. You could have the Mamas and the Papas, Pink Floyd and MC5 all on the same station. If it was good and the payola was right it got airplay and sold records. For the last 30 or so years things became formatted and scripted that the music did become stagnant and predictable.

We are now in a new era and we'll just see what happens. We live today, when a band can write, produce, and distribute their own music and videos and record companies are on the way out. Hopefully we'll see the same artistic and creative ooutput we saw in the 60's.

Now, that might seem contradictory to say that there is good music today and yet say it's stifled by the record companies, but in a few cases like those mentioned above, the artsts have gained enough sway to do what they want to. I think for example, American Idiot is one of the finest albums to come along in a very, very long time.

Truth is, real musicians don't sit around and blame their gear. He or she will take what's available and find new and exciting ways to use it. We call that "creativity" and it leads to new and exciting music, perhaps a new star player with a new signature sound. But as the internet Tone Police patrol the net, the are quick to cite anybody for not using the "correct" signal chain.


Here's some very enlightening soundclips to show what I mean about creativity. I wrote this song and couldn't come up with ideas to finish it. So being the self-appointed chairman of the International Guitar Playing Academy, I offered it up to my "Iron Guitarists" to show off their creativity in Studio Stadium. (BTW, the cool thing about Studio Stadium is that everybody wins!)

Here's
Iron Guitarist refin:
SoundClick artist: refin - One man ba...st having fun.

Iron Guitarist flatjamboo:
SoundClick artist: flatjamboo trax - ...usic downloads

and finally, Strat-Talk's own Iron Guitarist Mikejazz
SoundClick artist: Miguel Braz - Inst...ental Blues, J

What the three examples show is guys playing, being creative and not worrying about analog vs. digital. There is a mixture of both in the tracks above.

Lesson there is - use what works, not what is politically correct.



Like I said earlier, keyboardists embraced digtital modelling full on and love it. I can remember when the same digital vs. analog type of debate was going on only in terms of acoustic vs. electric guitar!

And look at nylon string - we don't see the classical guitar players telling the flaminco guitar players their tone is all wrong.

And quite honestly, if I come up with a patch that turns me on, turns the audience on, and get paid to use it - I really don't care what some Tone **** on the internet thousands of miles away thinks.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I don't see it as a contradiction, but whatever.

Today's rock is different. Not better, not worse. Just different. Some great music is being recorded by Greenday, My Chemical Romance and others.

You have to remember, back in the 60's and 70's - sure we had the Stones, the Who, Jimi and the rest, but we also had The 1910 Fruitgum Company. There was good and bad just like today.

The biggest difference I see is that back then anything was fair game. You could have the Mamas and the Papas, Pink Floyd and MC5 all on the same station. If it was good and the payola was right it got airplay and sold records. For the last 30 or so years things became formatted and scripted that the music did become stagnant and predictable.

We are now in a new era and we'll just see what happens. We live today, when a band can write, produce, and distribute their own music and videos and record companies are on the way out. Hopefully we'll see the same artistic and creative ooutput we saw in the 60's.

Now, that might seem contradictory to say that there is good music today and yet say it's stifled by the record companies, but in a few cases like those mentioned above, the artsts have gained enough sway to do what they want to. I think for example, American Idiot is one of the finest albums to come along in a very, very long time.

Truth is, real musicians don't sit around and blame their gear. He or she will take what's available and find new and exciting ways to use it. We call that "creativity" and it leads to new and exciting music, perhaps a new star player with a new signature sound. But as the internet Tone Police patrol the net, the are quick to cite anybody for not using the "correct" signal chain.


Here's some very enlightening soundclips to show what I mean about creativity. I wrote this song and couldn't come up with ideas to finish it. So being the self-appointed chairman of the International Guitar Playing Academy, I offered it up to my "Iron Guitarists" to show off their creativity in Studio Stadium. (BTW, the cool thing about Studio Stadium is that everybody wins!)

Here's
Iron Guitarist refin:
SoundClick artist: refin - One man ba...st having fun.

Iron Guitarist flatjamboo:
SoundClick artist: flatjamboo trax - ...usic downloads

and finally, Strat-Talk's own Iron Guitarist Mikejazz
SoundClick artist: Miguel Braz - Inst...ental Blues, J

What the three examples show is guys playing, being creative and not worrying about analog vs. digital. There is a mixture of both in the tracks above.

Lesson there is - use what works, not what is politically correct.



Like I said earlier, keyboardists embraced digtital modelling full on and love it. I can remember when the same digital vs. analog type of debate was going on only in terms of acoustic vs. electric guitar!

And look at nylon string - we don't see the classical guitar players telling the flaminco guitar players their tone is all wrong.

And quite honestly, if I come up with a patch that turns me on, turns the audience on, and get paid to use it - I really don't care what some Tone **** on the internet thousands of miles away thinks.

Youd said "Well written and played on modellers will always sound better than conversely on a tube amp."...I dont know exactly what you meant by conversely, but Im given the impression that you are saying "modellers will always sound better than a tube amp"...and my point was, tonally, do you think todays new rock sounds as good as before it all went digital? Not the songs, not the music, not the artist...do you appreciate the tones offered by todays new artists?
BTW Greenday doesnt have a digital sound...this would be your opportunity to show me his digital set up and modelers.

Also I sampled the above MP3s...it all sounded digitally processed, Im not convenced there is anything analog besides the guitars themselves.

And for the record, Im no tone snob, Ive got my share of digital products from Boss(COSM) and Korg(the Toneworks pictured above)...but I would never say its "ALWAYS" better(more convenient and affordable, yes!)...even if the artist cant write or play very well.
I would be more than happy to break out some old blues artists to prove my point.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Sprocket

Also I sampled the above MP3s...it all sounded digitally processed, Im not convenced there is anything analog besides the guitars themselves.

Well. there's the problem with preconceptions. One of those was recorded by a very experienced studio cat and was a miked tube amp! So, I'd say you can't tell the difference.

[choronzon777]

My own experience at the moment is that I've gone down the "modelling" and "simulated" route and now basically I'm pretty fed up with it. I'm stripping all the gubbins back and will be settling for a small tube amp, Overdrive pedal (DOD Malmsteen edition with analogman mods), Boss compressor, Boss Digital Delay, Boss NS-2 Noisegate and "some sort" of Wah.

Takes me back to my early days 20 years ago playing but I'm really looking forward to the simplicity, warmth and tone of pedals.

Cheers

David

[Audiopirate]

I guess it all depends upon what you're after. I've got a V-Amp that I use at home to learn new material; which has a shed load of excellent sounds/tones in it BUT I would never use it live. I rely heavily upon the tone/sounds of the guitar & amp for the baseline and add to this with pedals. This way I know what sound I'm going to get in all venues & will usually only need a little 'tweek' to fit the acoustics/size etc.. Tried the multi-effects through amp & all it sounded like to me was a wasp caught in a jam jar!

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well. there's the problem with preconceptions. One of those was recorded by a very experienced studio cat and was a miked tube amp! So, I'd say you can't tell the difference.

Maybe he could use some more lessons on recording(or invest in better equipment)...it sounds very digital, but maybe that was your point...smoother it in digital recording effects and it sounds the same.
I read your songs description.

I dont understand why you keep attacking me and insulting me(or talking about keyboards and other random unrelateds)...I think we could have just discussed the high points and low points...but "tone ****"???
Why dont you take it down a notch Matlock?

FYI, I record on a micro digital 4 track with onboard effects...I have 4 tube amps(and various pedals) that I dont currently use, because my onboard digital effects are simple to use and convenient...I admittedly dont own a quality mic or even KNOW how to mic one of my amps(meaning I havent done it yet).
BUT I am pretty good at building models and patches, after having 4 modelers/emulators...and I currently find that alot of people use built in(OEM) patches to record, like they dont take enough time to actually learn how to adjust the parameters to their guitar...one thing I find extremely noticeable about this AND digital effects is that the treble is usually set too high, to the point of overdriving the treble alone and to me it often sounds like the guitars action is too low and buzzy. Or the mids WAY too high, to the point where the tone just hums instead of ringing out.
And that is this tone ****'s impression of digital effects.

Hey, maybe you should just play guitar more or learn more bout recording instead of "worrying what some tone **** has to say anyways"? Im sure the forum will get along fine in your absence....you might even be able to find the time to respond to all your fan letters.

Posts like yours and John's make me want to avoid forums entirely.

[SteveJames]

I love the multi effects and apart from when using clean sounds live I've never had a problem creating patches for every song/sound I require. I couldn't stand the bending down and altering stuff between songs, (I'm a singer too). Yes, it takes time to tweek your patches to perfection but when you've got what you want "edit" and "save". Simple as that, the only draw back is over use of the compressor, it can be a pain when you are playing a large venue and you need to turn up, you tend to make all your clean sounds sound overdriven. (using your effects board as a pre amp) So be careful when creating your patches in a small bedroom at midnight, it aint gonna work at a gig when you are playing 10 times louder, or should I say up to number 11.

Steve

[phildobbin]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I think it has more to do with the engineer, really. I mean, think about it. You put in the old tube amps, mike them, and then go into ProTools or Sonar and end up with a digital signal path anyway. By the time you add all the LFO's for tails or whatever and add .vst plug-ins what's left isn't very analog. Sure, If I was doing AAA into a Neve I could probably tell the difference, but in today's world of DDD recording that usually gets to the consumer's ears via an iPod or CD...

The album was done to 2" tape which is why we made all the effort. Lost a lot in mastering because of transferring it to CD but I can hear the difference at least

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by phildobbin

The album was done to 2" tape which is why we made all the effort. Lost a lot in mastering because of transferring it to CD but I can hear the difference at least

Wow! ( and flutter ) I haven't seen one of those old 2" tape jobs in a long, long time. How many IPS did you do it at? 3.75? What console too - that makes a big difference in the sound on the old systems. That must have been like working at Hitsville USA. Very cool. You can still see the Otari 90's around for sale. Even those transformerless models have 6 percent wow and flutter. But they are warm, fer sure.

Can you post a link to some of the material?

[midifarm]

Individual my friend. You can upgrade each as you need it. BOSS isn't the be all end all for effects. They do make some nice and avg effects, but as your tastes change and needs develop you can switch them out.

[j2b4osan]

i like the ability to control each effect on the fly and switch each on and off at will so I like individual. I always thought the multi sounded to digital for my ears.

[SDStrat]

Was wondering the same thing, since a multi effect looks convenient versus the stomp boxes. I currently have the individual stomp boxes and have noticed the sounds can be tailored quite easily when playing in different venues.

[adaptable]

Originally Posted by phildobbin

Nowadays as well, there has been a much welcomed (IMO) switch back to analogue sounds rather than digital. Last album I recorded back in January, we spent a lot of time getting away from that digital/COSM sound & using old stompboxes, valve (tube) amps & the like.

Recording again at the moment & employing the same set of values. Just sounds so much better to my ears... YMMV

I am right there with you... I've picked up a Egnater Rebel 20, a Vox AC4, and various analogue pedals and effects.... Looking at picking up a pedal steel and good quality mandolin soon too. Authenticity counts....whether you can hear it or not, in my opinion. "It sounds better in the room" is what I like about the real stuff....that sound, recorded through a set of stereo mics into a decent pre-amp (JoeMeek or Avalon 737sp) is the stuff that makes your recordings sound fantastic. The more you do in the computer, the more inauthentic it is, IMHO.