AVRI Finish - Nitro or Nitro Over Poly?

Dice · April 20th, 2009, 04:58 PM

I figure that one of you knows for sure and could give me a quick answer!

My '57 RI is still ding free, so I haven't really been able to explore! I guess I'm really just curious about how this thing is going to wear in over the years - particularly the fingerboard. Thanks for the knowledge!

Boris Bubbanov · April 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM

There's a catalyzed undercoater under there.

That coating is IMO thinner on the "Thinskin" and that's where the name came from.

Dice · April 20th, 2009, 07:02 PM

Hmmm.... Will it still wear through with normal use - or will I just expose that damned poly shell coat and stop there?

K-Line · April 22nd, 2009, 06:37 AM

It will wear through to the poly coat and then just slow down.

TexasFury · April 22nd, 2009, 12:30 PM

was this AVRI finished in a different manner?

Fender USA 57 RI relic - Harmony Cent...mmunity Forums

Boris Bubbanov · April 22nd, 2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasFury

was this AVRI finished in a different manner?

Looks like it could've worn down to the undercoat like K-line has said - it may have received help to get through some of the undercoat but I cannot say from here - I can't see enough.

Mark Davis at TDPRI posed the question right at one of the guys on the Production side (not CS) at Fender and they confirmed the undercoat was there, even on the thin skins.

I tell ya, finishing one's own guitar bodies from raw is a real education in terms of what nitro looks like over different types of fillers, sealers, shellac, polymerized products. The Fender poly undercoat may seem like a sell out but I'm not sure how you could keep the product pumping out if you didn't do it that way.

Dice · April 22nd, 2009, 08:51 PM

Fury - that must have been an old formula... The Nitro on my '05 RI is very nice - but it is pretty much fully cured and isn't even thinking about "sinking in" anywhere. Even my Gibsons have more grain sink to them than my AVRI, which has none. (Granted, we're talking about Mahogany on the LP's)

The sealer coat really IS a sellout - and yes, it may be necessary. I'm not an expert by any means.

Also, I suppose that our "generation" of guitar owners is one that would gripe and complain about their finish being in any way "imperfect." Its a small % of us that really care about the "old way of doing things."

I love my AVRI, but the Nitro finish on it as compared to my '65 Jag don't seem to be very similar. We'll see how it ages over the years, though - only time will tell!

It seems like the Fender camp seems to care less about finishes than the Gibson folks. You can't even find a Gibson model with anything other than a Nitro finish - and we even complain that they're using more and more plasticizers. The Fender guys for the most part don't even care that the majority of the American models are covered in Poly! Interesting, huh? I much prefer the feel and wear characteristics of Nitro, and can't even imagine spending over $1k on a poly finished guitar - but that is personal preference.

Thanks for the feedback, fellas.

Boris Bubbanov · April 22nd, 2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dice

I love my AVRI, but the Nitro finish on it as compared to my '65 Jag don't seem to be very similar. We'll see how it ages over the years, though - only time will tell!

A Jag from 1965 is gonna have nitro which is chemically different from the 1951 products - and oceans away from what passes for "nitro" today.

In the same way the tough undercoater used by Fender in 1965 is chemically different from that which is used now.

But all these substances all play approximately the same role in the finishing strategy as did their forebears. The biggest difference being today's "nitro" doesn't want to amber, or check, and cold weather crazing can subside - in total the new finish has a vastly longer life cycle than did the stuff 50 years ago - while the new undercoater works about the same but is safer to use.

Dice · April 23rd, 2009, 12:43 AM

I see - thanks for the clarification. I did get some freeze checking on my Roadworn Strat - which seems to have a softer Nitro finish than my AVRI (although the Roadworn is still curing, I'm sure). My Gibson '58 Reissue Les Paul has been exposed to some temperature extremes and had no checking - apparently guys have tried freeze checking in a deep freeze w/ the newer Gibsons with no luck! I suppose there is much more variation among "Nitrocellulose Lacquers" than the average guy like me would expect.