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Old November 11th, 2011, 03:44 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdred85 View Post
Very good points all, however the post was about the value and I think that an obvious equation wasn't factored yet. Many of these fine vintage pieces don't end up in the hands of musicians. They are the new Picassos. They get put in glass cases to impress all over the world and get traded and sold like stock. Same with vintage autos now. That has driven the price of vintage instruments past the hands of those that appreciate them as they were built for.
And this is a crime.

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Old November 11th, 2011, 07:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daiv View Post
In 1982 (aged 19) I bought a 1962 Stratocaster from a friend.

It is the only Strat I own, the only Strat I've known.

I have used it and abused it, learned some things to prevent
it breaking strings and got to grips with it's
three way switch.

What is it that makes such a Strat so valuable compared
to those made after it?
Truthfully, nothing and (ssshhh!) they aren't that valuable. Some people pay big $$ for them, that's all. Seems to me mainly people that weren't around back in the day to play 'em then and think they missed out on something (they didn't).

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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:38 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Supply/Demand mainly.
Yup.

Let's face it, if there were millions of identical Strats made in the 50's, 60's and 70's, but only 10,000 in the 80's, we'd all be drooling over 80's Strats.


Nothing particularly specia about old onesl, other than the cool-factor of having an old guitar. Even though mass-produced, many guitars vary in sound/feel even if you have sequential serial numbers.

Keep this in mind.... Eric Clapton bought six Strats, and pieced together Blackie. The remaining parts were sold/given away/discarded/lost to who-knows-where. If you had those five guitars now, they'd be worth many thousands of dollars, even though they were considered "trash". Even Blackie was retired because it no longer has the right sound/feel.

A "new" Blackie had to be piced together from off-the-rack Strats that were substandard (to Clapton). It went on to create beauutiful music, and cost only what a new Strat cost at the time.

Now, the "used up" Blackie sells for a million dollars at auction. The "junk" leftovers would be be considered "great" these days.

What made the "value" go up? Supply/demand. Supply is what it is. Demand is caused more by emotion than reason (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarott View Post
....Seems to me mainly people that weren't around back in the day to play 'em then and think they missed out on something (they didn't)....
^^^ Great answer. ^^^
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
 
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I think it just takes time for a guitar to settle in. The wood needs to age, and it needs to be played a LOT before it reaches its sonic potential, imo. The fact that vintage Strats are collectable is half of the deal, and the other half of the desirability factor is the simple ingredient of age. You can manufacture a lot of things better now, but you can't buy time.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 09:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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The old ones are highly valued because they don't make them anymore...
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Old November 11th, 2011, 09:56 AM   #26 (permalink)
 
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The old ones are highly valued because they don't make them anymore...
Real talk.

Proof of this is that an old, terrible playing 1962 is worth a TON more than a great playing and sounding 2012 Fender.

It's about having a rare, old guitar. Not necessarily about the sound, though that's a part of it.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:04 AM   #27 (permalink)
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They stopped making 1957 stratocasters in 57. 1962 stratocasters? U guessed it...stopped making those in 1962. Needless to say, there wasn't an unlimited supply of guitars made in those years, and there aren't many left. They are wonderful, but still, just blocks of wood and some metal wires.

That being said, I'd buy a 1962 stratocaster if I could afford it.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I think it just takes time for a guitar to settle in. The wood needs to age, and it needs to be played a LOT before it reaches its sonic potential, imo......
No. Want proof? The "great tone" songs we love that were recorded on these old Strats were recorded when the guitars were relatively new.

And.. the ones that have become super-collectible... aren't getting played.

The collectibility/extreme-value of guitars has more in common with similar behavior with cars or Beanie-babies, than it does with the sound the guitar can produce.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:47 AM   #29 (permalink)
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It's because self indulgent wieners who collect Ferraris and Rolexs and don't even play guitar have more money than brains and have bought up old Fenders and hung them on their walls to prove how cool they are to their friends. Even Gilmour's black strat hung in a Hard Rock Cafe for years, being pretty much lost until he came looking for it.

In short, supply and demand. If the wieners decided that something else was cooler and had a sell off of their unplayed guitars, the prices would drop like a rock.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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As said earlier in this thread the 'pre-cbs' thing started when people began saying modern Fenders aren't much good. Prices grew with the legend that surrounded them. I got my 62 in 1976 for £230. That was the same price as a new USA Fender (they weren't made anywhere else then). I was motivated by comments in interviews which said 70's Strats were not much good. Particularly one with Ritchie Blackmore who called them 'crap'.
There must have been decent new ones as they still sold but I just wanted the most bang for my buck. My only guide was that they had small headstocks!
If I had to replace it it I'd happily buy a more modern guitar. I recently pointed out in another thread that I once played a Japanese 62 reissue that felt exactly like my own. It wasn't plugged in but if the sound wasn't right I could always change the pickups.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 10:59 AM   #31 (permalink)
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In short, supply and demand. If the wieners decided that something else was cooler and had a sell off of their unplayed guitars, the prices would drop like a rock.
I think you are over estimating the number held by people who can afford a Rolex etc.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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No. Want proof? The "great tone" songs we love that were recorded on these old Strats were recorded when the guitars were relatively new.
Hmm.....yeah, I hear what you are saying. However, I guess I wasn't referring to tone's I've heard on classic recordings. I was making a statement based on what I find appealing tonally from vintage guitars that I've played versus brand-new ones. But yes, that is a valid point you've made.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Eq and compression in the recording process alters recorded sounds.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #34 (permalink)
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It's because self indulgent wieners who collect Ferraris ....

... If the wieners decided that something else was cooler and had a sell off of their unplayed guitars, the prices would drop like a rock.
This.

More proof:
LIGHTNING ISN'T GOING TO STRIKE TWICE

Something is "worth" what someone is willing to pay for it. I
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Yup.

Let's face it, if there were millions of identical Strats made in the 50's, 60's and 70's, but only 10,000 in the 80's, we'd all be drooling over 80's Strats.


Nothing particularly specia about old onesl, other than the cool-factor of having an old guitar. Even though mass-produced, many guitars vary in sound/feel even if you have sequential serial numbers.

Keep this in mind.... Eric Clapton bought six Strats, and pieced together Blackie. The remaining parts were sold/given away/discarded/lost to who-knows-where. If you had those five guitars now, they'd be worth many thousands of dollars, even though they were considered "trash". Even Blackie was retired because it no longer has the right sound/feel.

A "new" Blackie had to be piced together from off-the-rack Strats that were substandard (to Clapton). It went on to create beauutiful music, and cost only what a new Strat cost at the time.

Now, the "used up" Blackie sells for a million dollars at auction. The "junk" leftovers would be be considered "great" these days.

What made the "value" go up? Supply/demand. Supply is what it is. Demand is caused more by emotion than reason (not that there's anything wrong with that).


^^^ Great answer. ^^^
Important to note that Blackie's huge sale price comes largely from its association with EC. Also EC himself has said that its still very playable, but rather than run it into the ground, he elected to retire it, as it was starting to show its age.

I don't think the same guitar built by you or I would go for over 2 or 3 grand. At most.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Because these were the tools that started and shaped Rock and Roll!
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #37 (permalink)
 
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Because these were the tools that started and shaped Rock and Roll!
Wow......that's good enough for me!! Well said.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #38 (permalink)
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agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbarott View Post
Truthfully, nothing and (ssshhh!) they aren't that valuable. Some people pay big $$ for them, that's all. Seems to me mainly people that weren't around back in the day to play 'em then and think they missed out on something (they didn't).

b.
I tend to agree. I never understood the hype. My guess is if you took the OP's guitar, and AB'd it with a new Custom Shop Strat, a blind folded person listening could not tell the difference.

Its a tough question to answer as defining market value for anything collectible is subjective.

Some people are fascinated with the past. That's why museums exist.
Something tells me the people who want a Strat made in the 60s are buying a piece of history. They desire a relic ( pun intended ) from a time when
music played only on AM radios, television was black and white, and you shared your home telephone wire on a party line.

Is a 57 Chevy made " better " than a new Corvette? Does it drive better?

Is a 1962 Fender Stratocaster made " better " than a new Custom Shop Strat? Does it drive better?

Interesting thread though.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #39 (permalink)
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IMO, CBS-era Stratocasters were sort of like getting a hamburger from a fast food joint; they sort of wrapped up a guitar and threw it at you. I'm not interested in arguing over big vs. small headstocks, finishes, three bolt/tilt necks, any of that stuff. Just pointing out that from the mid-Sixties until the advent of Fender Musical Instrument Company in 1985, the overall quality of Fender guitars suffered greatly, unless one prefers Fender guitars of that era.
Tell that to Jimi Hendrix
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Old November 11th, 2011, 12:42 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Tell that to Jimi Hendrix
I know what you are saying there....but Jimi would have sounded good on any guitar. Jimi sounded the way he did because he experimented with new chord structures and scales, and he used enough fuzz and distortion that to make whatever guitar he played sound like Jimi Hendrix.

So no, the previous poster isn't necessarily correct about all CBS series guitars being crappy, but quality did go down those years, most certainly.
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