Fender Stratocaster Guitar Forum



Warmoth.com Amplified Parts lacemusic.com seymourduncan.com


Go Back   Fender Stratocaster Guitar Forum > Main Stratocaster Guitar Discussion Forum > Stratocaster Discussion Forum
Forgot Username/Password? Join Us!

Stratocaster Discussion Forum The Strat-talk.com Fender Stratocaster Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 11th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #1 (permalink)
Strat-Talk Member
 
Kasporr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 54
True temperament frets?

Hey everyone.

Does anyone here own a guitar with true temperament frets on its neck? I wonder a bit about the pros and cons of this. Having a neck made for you does cost around $1000, which by all means is quite expensive. But then you got to ask, is it worth it if you really want to hot up your guitar?

For those who don't know what true temperament frets are, you can read more here: True Temperament - Fretting systems

Kasporr is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
But I digress
 
madmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allatoona Landing
Age: 49
Posts: 5,913
I have enough trouble playing a guitar with straight frets. That looks like it would be a nightmare for barre chording... my fingers are mostly straight.
__________________
"I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much of course... the computer industry didn't even foresee that the century was going to end". --Douglas Adams
madmat is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Strat-O-Master
 
Stratoskater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Raleigh NC
Age: 39
Posts: 969
Ummmmmmm, yeah that is odd to say the least and I imagine a bunch of snake oil in the end.
Stratoskater is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links   #
Sponsored posting
 

Old February 11th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
inkedintville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Age: 34
Posts: 3,755
My luthier told me he was going to get setup to do these, but after talking to some friends in Nashville he decided not to.
__________________
"I may not believe in myself, but I believe in what I'm doing." Jimmy Page
inkedintville is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Strat-O-Master
 
willluvstrats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mobile
Posts: 591
looks to me like bending would be totally screwed up! seems like the pitch would change as you bend! Really whats wrong with the traditional frets we've been using for years? I just don't see the point. Please enlighten me on what you would actually gain.
willluvstrats is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
Ronkirn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Age: 68
Posts: 2,499
I'd say, if ya can play like Satriani, then you might be able to get a thousand bux worth of something outta 'em... but if ya play like all those losers that only have normal frets... ya know, like Clapton, Gilmore, Malmsteen, Beck... and so on.... then it really doesn't mean much...

Do ya really wanna convert $1000,00 of your money into someone else's money when plain 'ol frets seem to work just fine...


Ron Kirn
__________________

"When you want to help people, you tell them the truth, when you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear." Dr. Thomas Sowell
Ronkirn is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: kentucky
Age: 55
Posts: 2,077
i also asked for opinions last year about these frets.

steve vai has been using these on both his original flo and evo guitars for several years now after experimenting extensivly with them

i think it is telling that he would modify his main guitars if there was not merit to it.

i think that modifying his main guitars that he has had for years goes a long way on telling you if it is a good idea or not. would you mod your #1 in this extreme manner if there was a chance it was going to ruin it?

. ive got an earvana nut on my 71 4 bolt strat and it is without a question an upgrade in intonation playability all over the neck.

the guy that put it on years ago said everyone that worked in the shop played the guitar and agreed that it was the most intune guitar..not just electric that they had ever played and they all wanted one.

and yep. i did have a good nut already in my strat.

john mclaughlin also uses these on his godin electric guitars.

i will trust steve vai's and john mclaughlins ears before i will claptons. even though i love eric and he is 1 of my main influences.



people can call it snake oil all they want but it without question they do work. as does the buzz feiten system.

just not to the extent of the frets.

this upgrade to me is one of the best ( also most expensive ) things you can do for improving sustain without effects.

all of the overtones will be in much more harmony = better sustain because the overtones are not fighting each other.


its to bad if some people cannot hear that their guitar is not in tune. especially if they change keys alot.

many many people cannot her the very few percent of difference that these make but for many it does make a huge difference.... and the quirks of guitar intonation is well known.

also there are different temperments for different styles of music.

just because some cannot hear it does not mean the problem does not exist.

also many great guitar players do struggle with intonation. most are good enough to even slightly bend strings on the fly to make them seemingly play in tune better. i can do it so i know they can and many do and it is not as critical if you are playing more leads. but if you are trying to play clean no effects ect. with nothing blaring and overdriven you will really appreiciate how in tune even the earvana makes it.

truetemperment is a very good system especially if you are playing with horns and or an orchestra.

the frets are not hard to bend on. they look different but it is a quick adjustment from what ive read.

truetemperment, buzz feiten and earvana all do a good job but the frets are more exacting. all are great for hitting chords high up on the neck and then also having open strings ringing and doing it in many keys with no adjustment and also being in harmony with horn players and the like.

this was before he had his guitars modified.


Last edited by mabley123; February 11th, 2012 at 05:39 PM.
mabley123 is online now   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
Vintage59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lost Angeles
Posts: 4,809
I'm sure it makes a fret level & dress a breeze...
__________________
"Why else do ya think we haven't been invaded yet? The aliens cannot factor in the uncertainty presented by Murphy's Law." ~Ron Kirn
Vintage59 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
jeremy blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Washington, IN
Age: 35
Posts: 2,251
Henry Kiaser has these...... Nuff said!
__________________
My guitars are backwards!
Telecaster I built myself!
mim stratocaster
SX EG6 (335)
jeremy blaze is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
Strat-Talk Member
 
Kasporr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by willluvstrats View Post
looks to me like bending would be totally screwed up! seems like the pitch would change as you bend! Really whats wrong with the traditional frets we've been using for years? I just don't see the point. Please enlighten me on what you would actually gain.
From what I've manage to read out of the little information there is about true temperament, it does not affect the bending at all. How, I'm not really sure, but I guess it has to do with the amount of pressure you bend with and that it's relative to where you are on the neck. For example, you'll need a lot less pressure put on a sting to bend a whole step if you are close to the middle of the neck. This transcribes to you'll bend enough to make the note sound right.

What you gain is absolute tone precision over the whole neck and supposedly sustain (S' Ray says so, at least).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronkirn View Post
I'd say, if ya can play like Satriani, then you might be able to get a thousand bux worth of something outta 'em... but if ya play like all those losers that only have normal frets... ya know, like Clapton, Gilmore, Malmsteen, Beck... and so on.... then it really doesn't mean much...

Do ya really wanna convert $1000,00 of your money into someone else's money when plain 'ol frets seem to work just fine...


Ron Kirn
I don't see how any update on your guitar is worth the while with that attitude. Why change pick-ups when the stock seem to sound just find? I mean, why convert your own money into someone else's?

I think you get the picture despite the fact that I perhaps took it a bit far. What I'm trying to say is that you change things to make a different. My question was simply; will it make a significant different?

On the other hand, where I live we have a bit different view of money. Everything here is way more expensive. I mean, you won't even find an American Special new for under $1200 which, if I'm not mistaken is quite a lot more that you guys in the states would pay? This transcribes into that $1000 isn't really that extremely much in music context here at least. Still, it is quite expensive I have to say.
Kasporr is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
jeremy blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Washington, IN
Age: 35
Posts: 2,251
But its fixxing a problem that doesn't really need fixing.

Mr. Kirn will correct me if I am wrong, but most guitars that are properly set up, have perfect intonation as it is.
__________________
My guitars are backwards!
Telecaster I built myself!
mim stratocaster
SX EG6 (335)
jeremy blaze is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
jeremy blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Washington, IN
Age: 35
Posts: 2,251
Seems like dressing these or recrowning these would be a nightmare!
__________________
My guitars are backwards!
Telecaster I built myself!
mim stratocaster
SX EG6 (335)
jeremy blaze is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
Strat-Talker
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Age: 50
Posts: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabley123 View Post
steve vai has been using these on both his original flo and evo guitars.

i think that modifying his main guitars that he has had for years goes a long way on telling you if it is a good idea or not.

ive got an earvana nut on my 71 4 bolt strat and it is without a question an upgrade in plaayability all over the neck.

people can call it snake oil all they want but it without question works.


its to bad if some people cannot hear that their guitar is not in tune. especially if they chane keys alot.

i think clapton is not a good example as he really does not use complicated chords

it is well known
I really am interested in the compensated nut- I have done some reading and think its probably worth doing- you can hear the differance I am sure- much prefer that to bent up wires!
spirit is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
Left is right!
 
Tele like it is's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Age: 51
Posts: 7,892
+1000 on the "problem that doesn't exist". Yes, the traditional frets are a best average, and no they don't play to perfect intonation even with the guitar setup perfectly, but we mere mortals are generally not able to hear the subtleties, and the minuses FAr outweigh the pluses.

And bending and fret dresses are out the freaking window. But hey, it's your money, so if you FEEL like this is for you, then spend freely! It's good for the econemy.
__________________
Sure, you can put a humbucker in it, but you'll burn in heck for it. And not in a good way!
Tele like it is is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
borismcorpheus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ithaca, NY
Age: 24
Posts: 2,335
A heavy fretting hand or slight flaws in tuning stability will automatically cancel out any benefits to tempered frets.

That said, I think I've seen a vid of Vai playing a neck with tempered frets. The tempered ones were mainly higher up on the neck where you wouldn't be playing too many chords and such anyways.
borismcorpheus is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 18
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele like it is View Post
+1000 on the "problem that doesn't exist". Yes, the traditional frets are a best average, and no they don't play to perfect intonation even with the guitar setup perfectly, but we mere mortals are generally not able to hear the subtleties, and the minuses FAr outweigh the pluses.

And bending and fret dresses are out the freaking window. But hey, it's your money, so if you FEEL like this is for you, then spend freely! It's good for the econemy.
+1. I agree that the negatives outweigh the positives and we have had straight frets for hundreds of years and have gotten along fine with them.
stratomaster96 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
But I digress
 
madmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allatoona Landing
Age: 49
Posts: 5,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasporr View Post
From what I've manage to read out of the little information there is about true temperament, it does not affect the bending at all. How, I'm not really sure, but I guess it has to do with the amount of pressure you bend with and that it's relative to where you are on the neck. For example, you'll need a lot less pressure put on a sting to bend a whole step if you are close to the middle of the neck. This transcribes to you'll bend enough to make the note sound right.

What you gain is absolute tone precision over the whole neck and supposedly sustain (S' Ray says so, at least).



I don't see how any update on your guitar is worth the while with that attitude. Why change pick-ups when the stock seem to sound just find? I mean, why convert your own money into someone else's?

I think you get the picture despite the fact that I perhaps took it a bit far. What I'm trying to say is that you change things to make a different. My question was simply; will it make a significant different?

On the other hand, where I live we have a bit different view of money. Everything here is way more expensive. I mean, you won't even find an American Special new for under $1200 which, if I'm not mistaken is quite a lot more that you guys in the states would pay? This transcribes into that $1000 isn't really that extremely much in music context here at least. Still, it is quite expensive I have to say.
You're taking a $1000 (here) guitar and putting a $1000 neck on it which will do nothing to help resale value. In 10-15 years time, when you're moving on to a new set of guitars and decide to thin the herd, you've got a guitar that you'll be lucky to sell. Simply put, one person in a thousand will see it as anything but an oddity.
__________________
"I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much of course... the computer industry didn't even foresee that the century was going to end". --Douglas Adams
madmat is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #18 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
michaell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: on the bus
Posts: 3,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasporr View Post
Hey everyone.

For those who don't know what true temperament frets are, you can read more here: True Temperament - Fretting systems
Thanks for posting. I had seen this before. Now I wish I could play that one time just to see what it feels and sounds like!
__________________
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein.
michaell is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 04:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
Strat-Talk Member
 
Kasporr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmat View Post
You're taking a $1000 (here) guitar and putting a $1000 neck on it which will do nothing to help resale value. In 10-15 years time, when you're moving on to a new set of guitars and decide to thin the herd, you've got a guitar that you'll be lucky to sell. Simply put, one person in a thousand will see it as anything but an oddity.
Well of course you wouldn't be fitting a $1000 neck on a guitar that isn't something special. The guitar I used in my previous post was just an example to show of the price difference in Sweden and U.S.A.
Kasporr is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 11th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
Senior Stratmaster
 
jeremy blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Washington, IN
Age: 35
Posts: 2,251
What would be a sp[ecial guitar deserving of a $1000 neck?
__________________
My guitars are backwards!
Telecaster I built myself!
mim stratocaster
SX EG6 (335)
jeremy blaze is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it true... CHRISB50 Stratocaster Discussion Forum 3 September 28th, 2011 02:03 PM
Fret buzz on low frets, but not on the high frets mcmacguy Tech-Talk 7 May 13th, 2011 10:55 AM
Jumbo frets vs Scalloped Frets: Practical differences? Blackmore Fan Stratocaster Discussion Forum 45 January 26th, 2011 03:01 AM
Jumbo frets on a medium jumbo frets strat Cesarp30 Stratocaster Discussion Forum 1 January 24th, 2011 10:24 AM
True Temperament Necks Teddy Watkins Stratocaster Discussion Forum 2 March 10th, 2010 12:02 PM

Untitled Document

Untitled Document

» Recent Strat-Talk Discussion
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



 


Design by: vBulletin Skins Zone
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2


The words Fender®, Telecaster®, Stratocaster® and the associated headstock designs are registered trademarks of the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation.
Strat-Talk.com is an independent, member supported forum and is not affiliated with Fender Musical Instruments Corporation.
© 2007 All rights reserved.

Strat-Talk.com is not responsible for the content posted by private individuals on this website. The views expressed herein are solely the opinions of the individuals that produced them and not necessarily the views of the owner of this website.