Learning Guitar By Ear

[Ntmanning]

Originally Posted by Eight Ball

Certain things I can work out by ear, other things I can't, it tends to be more about state of mind rather than any technical ability with me, I stick on Cream, for eg. and I can feel it, it moves me to the core it it hits that sweet spot inside me, so I can be playing just by knowing some very basic concepts and my hands just do it really, I don't have to sit there concentrating with some things, in fact I'm worse at that, just improvising along and a lick will happen, without my thought or anything, i can just be jamming along and then realise, "wait, I just done the same lick" without even trying.

I've learned most of the parts in White Room, Badge and Outside Woman Blues by doing this, I've learned many little licks (especially on acoustic) that I can just adjust for my own personal use just by playing along, eventually there does come points where you need to learn some theory but it just needs to happen in little chunks.

This is what I am most interested in. I don't really want to tab out an entire song. First of all that is easily found online, or in books and its probably way more accurate that what I would be able to do. I can work on my phrasing and adding it my own little bits to it instead of tabbing it all out. I really just want to be listening to music and hear a sweet lick and say "Hey I want to learn that." And be able to figure it out on guitar in a few minutes.

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by CandyAppleHead

Not sure I'd agree with that. I'd say start with the major scale. It's fundamental to understanding harmony and melody in western music. With blues, there are contradictions - you play a minor scale over major (OK dominant 7) chords. That's going to confuse the OP especially if, as he has said, he's having trouble distinguishing between major and minor sounds. Once he has grasped the basic tonal concepts from the major scale I'd then look at the major pentatonic and then onto the minor pentatonic.

Thats why you start with the blues, the minor pentatonic is NOT a traditional "Western" form of music. It is the gift from Africa, from which started with the blues, to gospel on to jazz, then to England to be repackaged by the 60's generation of Brit musicians like Eric Clapton, Eric Burden et. al. and morphed into rock.

The blues with their simplicity dives into the heart, piercing into emotional content of the soul, suspending the more rigorous structured mathematical grid of western music theory. In Days after learning the minor pentatonic scale I could play along by ear with any music written in that style. But that's just me and my opinion.

"Black people don't need to take anti-depressants, they got the blues to keep them going"
Rev J. Wright

"I don't care is the cat is black, or if the cat is white, as long as it catches mice"
Tung Shiao Ping

[Ntmanning]

I've started used David Burge's Relative Ear Training Super Course and have got to the point of the first test I think. I need to have memorized the perfect fifths for each note both up and down. I know I have it going one way, but I'm not sure about having it in the other direction. Does anyone know of a table or something to show this? Or can someone double check what I have?

Ab - Eb & Db
A - E & D
A# - E# & D#
Bb - F & Eb
B - F# & E
Cb - Gb & Fb
C - G & F
C# - G# & F#
Db - Ab & Gb
D - A & G
D# - A# & G#
Eb - Bb & Ab
E - B & A

Hopefully this makes sense to someone, I keep getting myself confused and want to make sure I study the right things.
E# - B# & A#
Fb - Cb & Bb
F - C & ??
F# - C# & B
Gb - Db & ??
G - D & ??
G# - D# & ??

[Eight Ball]

Originally Posted by Bundini

Thats why you start with the blues, the minor pentatonic is NOT a traditional "Western" form of music. It is the gift from Africa, from which started with the blues, to gospel on to jazz, then to England to be repackaged by the 60's generation of Brit musicians like Eric Clapton, Eric Burden et. al. and morphed into rock.

The blues with their simplicity dives into the heart, piercing into emotional content of the soul, suspending the more rigorous structured mathematical grid of western music theory. In Days after learning the minor pentatonic scale I could play along by ear with any music written in that style. But that's just me and my opinion.

"Black people don't need to take anti-depressants, they got the blues to keep them going"
Rev J. Wright

"I don't care is the cat is black, or if the cat is white, as long as it catches mice"
Tung Shiao Ping

..And once you have the Minor Pentatonic you have the Major Pentatonic by moving down 3 frets, then from there you can just use the root notes to bridge out and work it out across the fretboard.

Once you know the Minor Pentatonic and Major Pentatonic you have the language to play about 90% of rock and blues music. Whether you can talk that language properly though is a matter of feeling and state of mind.

[jerryo]

Sit down and play in a dark room.

Watch what your ears and mind will do.

Its awesome...

[platypibri]

I'm amazed that in all these comments, one thing has not come up even once. SING! Even if you have no desire to be a singer. There is no better way to internalize the notes than to be able to reproduce them with your own body. And when you can sing a line away from the radio (or whatever), then you can go and find it on the guitar. And then, you've taken a major step toward your goal. Go the other way too. As you run up and down a scale, sing along with the scale. You will begin to see that a certain place in your voice corresponds to a certain place on the fretboard. Which is only a step or two away from "this FEELS like D."

Oh, and what exactly is WRONG with SURF MUSIC?

[Lobotomy Boy]

Oh, and what exactly is WRONG with SURF MUSIC?

Anyone dissing surf music better be careful or Poison Ivy might come and kick their butts.

[chuckdup]

i remember how bad my hands and fingers hurt when i was first learning to play so im not about to try and learn to play now by ear.........laters....chuck

[Ntmanning]

Can anyone confirm that my perfect 5th intervals are correct?

I have a slightly off topic question to this, but it deals with scales. I have known scales for awhile but continually am learning more new things about them. If you play in the Am Pentatonic scale, do you usually start and/or end riffs on the root notes?

Thanks

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by platypibri

Oh, and what exactly is WRONG with SURF MUSIC?

Not a damn thing! It's the ultimate guitar music.

[Eight Ball]

Originally Posted by Ntmanning

Can anyone confirm that my perfect 5th intervals are correct?

I have a slightly off topic question to this, but it deals with scales. I have known scales for awhile but continually am learning more new things about them. If you play in the Am Pentatonic scale, do you usually start and/or end riffs on the root notes?

Thanks

You can do it, it kinda resolves it, almost as if you're asking a question by playing licks in the scale and then answering it by finishing on a root note, but you don't have to, just do what ever sounds right to you.

I've actually found that finishing on the root doesn't always work, whatever feels right.

As for the other stuff about perfect fifths etc. I know little about that so I'll leave that up to someone else.

[hendrixfan]

for me my ear started to develope after a while of playing and listening to music,i,m still developing this ability and i think it improves with time patience and practise,for instance i can tune my guitar in perfectly for standard tuning but not so accurate with drop tunings weird

[CandyAppleHead]

Originally Posted by Ntmanning

I've started used David Burge's Relative Ear Training Super Course and have got to the point of the first test I think. I need to have memorized the perfect fifths for each note both up and down. I know I have it going one way, but I'm not sure about having it in the other direction. Does anyone know of a table or something to show this? Or can someone double check what I have?

Ab - Eb & Db
A - E & D
A# - E# & D#
Bb - F & Eb
B - F# & E
Cb - Gb & Fb
C - G & F
C# - G# & F#
Db - Ab & Gb
D - A & G
D# - A# & G#
Eb - Bb & Ab
E - B & A

Hopefully this makes sense to someone, I keep getting myself confused and want to make sure I study the right things.
E# - B# & A#
Fb - Cb & A
F - C & Bb
F# - C# & B
Gb - Db & B (same as above)
G - D & C
G# - D# & C#

Here you go. I think the confusing part is what is called enharmonics - notes that sound the same but can have different names, such as E# and F. Essentially they are the same note, and are so on a guitar, although technically they should be written in accordance with whatever key you are playng in, and also should be everso slightly different in pitch, but I wouldn't worry about that at this stage. It will help if you are familiar with the notes on a piano keyboard.

The learning tool you want is the Circle of Fifths, which is really an aide memoire on all of this. Should be easy to Google.

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by CandyAppleHead

Not sure I'd agree with that. I'd say start with the major scale. It's fundamental to understanding harmony and melody in western music. With blues, there are contradictions - you play a minor scale over major (OK dominant 7) chords. That's going to confuse the OP especially if, as he has said, he's having trouble distinguishing between major and minor sounds. Once he has grasped the basic tonal concepts from the major scale I'd then look at the major pentatonic and then onto the minor pentatonic.

The Blues are not Western Music, its a gift from Africa. It evolved to gospel then into jazz, was transported to Europe, re-packaged by the Brits of the 60's and reintroduced back to it's native land. The minor pentatonic puts your mind in a different place, free of the mathematical perfection of classic Western music orthodoxy. Let the boy loosen up his mind a little and let the soul come thru. Pretty soon you will feel limited by the minor and then learning to mix in the major, the magic can start. That's old school, down home music theory.

"You gotta be born Black twice to play the Blues" B.B. King

[bowhunter]

Originally Posted by Bundini

The Blues are not Western Music, its a gift from Africa. It evolved to gospel then into jazz, was transported to Europe, re-packaged by the Brits of the 60's and reintroduced back to it's native land. The minor pentatonic puts your mind in a different place, free of the mathematical perfection of classic Western music orthodoxy. Let the boy loosen up his mind a little and let the soul come thru. Pretty soon you will feel limited by the minor and then learning to mix in the major, the magic can start. That's old school, down home music theory.

"You gotta be born Black twice to play the Blues" B.B. King

Well said!! I agree

[CandyAppleHead]

Originally Posted by Bundini

The Blues are not Western Music, its a gift from Africa. It evolved to gospel then into jazz, was transported to Europe, re-packaged by the Brits of the 60's and reintroduced back to it's native land. The minor pentatonic puts your mind in a different place, free of the mathematical perfection of classic Western music orthodoxy. Let the boy loosen up his mind a little and let the soul come thru. Pretty soon you will feel limited by the minor and then learning to mix in the major, the magic can start. That's old school, down home music theory.

"You gotta be born Black twice to play the Blues" B.B. King

OK, OK...I heard you the first time.

"Can blue men sing the whites?" - Bonzo Dog Band

[Bundini]

Whoops
Double posted, sorry

Came out of Bundini Labs "Department of Redundancy Department"

[CandyAppleHead]

Originally Posted by Bundini

Whoops
Double posted, sorry

Came out of Bundini Labs "Department of Redundancy Department"

Ha ha...like it.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Bundini

...

"You gotta be born Black twice to play the Blues" B.B. King

But on the other hand, once I asked BB about all that black dude born on the bayou jazz and he replied in the opposite - he said "You don't need to be sick to be a doctor." He went on to say that the blues is actually joyful music, so you need to be a joyful person to do it. So go figure.

I think Larry and Robben have proved that. Personally, I grew up not too far from Son House's home, and was fortunate to learn from people who learned directly from him. Not a single one of them cared about the color of my skin, or saw it as an impediment. Nor did they buy into the master narrative of " The blues ain't nuthin but a good man feeling bad" and you have to have sufferred for years. They taught me, instead, that it was about playing in a minimal fashion, and having a stage act and the ability to entertain. The blues isn't about the guitar - it's all about the singer. If you listen to the real McCoys, guys like Son House, Lightning Hopkins and the rest - they weren't outstanding players by a long shot. But man, could they sing.

I really wasn't until later that the guitar wank-fests became part of the lore. Listen to BB. He is so not playing all the time! BB knows this because he was a blues DJ before becoming an entertainer.

[GuitarSmithTN]

Ab - Eb & Db
A - E & D
A# - E# & D#
Bb - F & Eb
B - F# & E
Cb - Gb & Fb
C - G & F
C# - G# & F#
Db - Ab & Gb
D - A & G
D# - A# & G#
Eb - Bb & Ab
E - B & A

(100% CORRECT!!)

Hopefully this makes sense to someone, I keep getting myself confused and want to make sure I study the right things.
E# - B# & A#
Fb - Cb & A (Bbb)
F - C & Bb
F# - C# & B
Gb - Db & B (Cb)
G - D & C
G# - D# & C#

You missed a couple here! They were enharmonically correct but not the right interval. For example, a 4th from G must be 4 LETTER names: G - A - B - C. That's why the 4th in Gb = Cb (not B, even though they are enharmonically the same note, G to B is only 3 letter jumps...).

BTW, you just completed a study in POWER CHORDS. "Smoke on the Water" = 4ths; "Iron Man" = 5ths. Of course, you've already picked up that an inverted 5th = 4th. For example, C up to G = 5th; if you drop the G an octave (8va), G up to C = 4th.

You can use these 4ths/5ths as cool "upper structures" too: Try your C/G but try different root notes, like A (makes Am7), Ab (Ab maj7), G (C/G or Gsus), F (F2, Fsus2), E (C/E), Eb (Eb6), D (Dsus4, Dm sus4), Db (Dbmaj#11), Bb (Bb6/9), F# (F#7b9#11 -- favorite jazz chord, known as "tritone substitution), you can also do B (C/B) which is a "walk down chord). I more common "pop" example might be using your C/G on top and moving the bass note: C - G - A - F.

You can try this on guitar; piano is great as well (because you can really "see" music theory). I use this stuff all the time -- very practical. Of course, it depends on what type of music you're playing...

[Ntmanning]

Thanks everyone for helping clear up everything. I've been busy lately so I didn't get a chance to take a look here and see the great work everyone is doing. Hopefully I can get working at this a little better!

[Offshore Angler]

Learning by ear is a major handicap. You need to train your ears as part of your music education. If you don't have your listening trained, you may THINK it sounds OK but if you record it and play it back you might get a different vibe.

Another deal, be careful from whom you get advice. I can tell you that from traveling around playing I've met many of the people on the net personally and invited them to come up onstage and jam. Met some fine players - a few that took me to school! - but in reality, many of the people that like to give sage advice couldn't string two notes together in a cogent fashion -even though they stood there eyes closed channeling Hendrix and wanking away. Even had a few times where some self-proclaimed road warriors where to afraid to even come up and play live before an audience.

And, you know - you need to understand that not everybody is cut out to be a guitar player. The old "practice, practice, practice" answer is nice, but it's just not reality. For example - I sucked at sports when I was young. No matter how much I practiced, I was never going to be good at them. I've known people like that musically too. Like my Dad. when he retired he took some music courses at a local college. Of course, on the few times each year I see him he would sit down and show me what he had learned on the piano - which is a relatively easy instrument - and it was patently obvious he was never going to be a musician. Sure, he had a great teacher and knew how to mechanically manipulate the thing, but he just isn't musical. He just doesn't posess a musical ear. That's OK, he's better at a lot of other things I could never do. For example, he's a very talented artist and I can't draw a straight line. He tried to teach me when I was young, but I just never had the eyes for it.

Another friend I've made through my playing is a photographer who is pretty renowned, and has been on TV shows. I'll want to take a picture and he'll show me where to stand, how to do this and that, and I'm totally amazed at how he just sees and perceives visual things totally different than me. I could never do that. He's just wired differently.

What all this is getting at, is that you need feedback as you learn. It might be an instructor, it might be recording, or it might be going out and jamming with friends. You can sit at home alone and play the guitar for years and years and still never really be a guitar player. You need to have somebody objectively listen and tell you what they think. That way, you get the details on what you should be listening for when you play. That's ear training.

Me - when I'm not playing I go bass fishing. I want to be able to get really good at it. I bought a Ranger bass boat, all kinds of rods and reels that each cost more than a new US Strat, and spend all my free time pouring over articles and books. But I only got so good at the basic mechanics until I reached out to others - to the point of consulting with a sports psychologist. It has only been since I started working with people that were better than me and getting objective feedback that I have really started to learn anything - and unlearn the wrong things I taught myself.

[Giant]

but if the fish aren't biting, they just aren't biting. ha ha

[Lobotomy Boy]

Great post, Offshore Angler. I'm afraid I'm an example of someone who is never going to be a musician, but I still have fun playing guitar. My expectations were so low going in that every little thing I learn is a major victory. It's fun to play guitar with friends, even though my input degenerates the overall sound from music to caterwauling, and I find practicing to be a most relaxing form of meditation. Because I am not a better player I should be embarrassed to admit how much I practice (probably 1-2 hours a day), but like I said, I'm measuring myself on a different curve than would someone who seriously expects to become a good guitar player. You might say I've put myself on an IEP, as they say in public schools these days. The same goes for me and bass fishing, which is also a passion of mine. I started fishing to spend more time with my son, who is a zen fisherman (he's also a highly-trained jazz musician with a bachelor's degree in music, though he went on to become a lawyer instead of a professional musician). My son and I go out fishing on the Mississippi every chance we get and he catches maybe 40 smallmouth bass to my 15, but I don't mind. I couldn't be having more fun.

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

..
.
And, you know - you need to understand that not everybody is cut out to be a guitar player. The old "practice, practice, practice" answer is nice, but it's just not reality. For example - I sucked at sports when I was young.

No matter how much I practiced, I was never going to be good at them. I.
Me - when I'm not playing I go bass fishing. .f.

some great points particularly the adage about practising. There has to be some natural talent there as well.


BTW never realised you lot fished for basses. We buy ours in guitar shops

[Bundini]

I agree with LB. Some of us play just to play. for me it's the blues. The blues were around before anti-depressants and psychologists. the blues was part of the therapy that helped me heal from all the bullet holes and mind shredding of Viet Nam. My strat is always there ready with unconditional love.

Hey JR what is the proper plural form of bass (fish) and bass the musical instrument?
The USA educational system no longer teaches English grammar or humor. Benny Hill was pretty popular over here, never did quite understand it.

[Lobotomy Boy]

Hey JR what is the proper plural form of bass (fish) and bass the musical instrument?

"Bass" is plural for "bass" when refering to fish, but I would think it would be "basses" when refering to musical instruments. I think. I should know this, having a masters degree in English and all, but to tell the truth I'm just guessing.

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by Bundini

I agree with LB. Some of us play just to play. for me it's the blues. The blues were around before anti-depressants and psychologists. the blues was part of the therapy that helped me heal from all the bullet holes and mind shredding of Viet Nam. My strat is always there ready with unconditional love.

Hey JR what is the proper plural form of bass (fish) and bass the musical instrument?The USA educational system no longer teaches English grammar or humor. Benny Hill was pretty popular over here, never did quite understand it.

I agree with Lobo Boy, however, I am Welsh not English

[Offshore Angler]

"Bass" is used for mulitple examples of the same species; "Basses" is used when referring to different species of Micropterous such as the largemouth, smallmouth, Kentucky, warmouth, etc. But I digress.

[BadBrad]

We all learn differently. There are some people who can hear a tune once and then pick up their instrument and play it. Others are more visual and learn better from tab or notation. However, I think that it is good to be able to learn by ear and by tab, and also to be able to read standard notation.

I learn best from tab, and can learn a tune pretty quickly this way. However, it doesn' stick with me as well as if I pick it out by ear. I learn quickly from tab, but then also forget the tunes quickly unless I play them regularly. All of my guitar heroes started out by learning by ear, listening to recordings. Or, they may have had a teacher that showed them some things.

I play a lot of folk and old-time music, and learning by ear is extremely important in folk music. You should start by learning tunes from recordings. If you interview the middle-aged and elderly musicians who are really great players, many will say that they learned from records. They would pick up the needle over and over and painstakingly learn each phrase and solo on the record. Nowadays we have digital recordings, slow down software and many other nifty tools to help us learn from recordings. Start out by slowing things down using a slow down software to help you pick out notes. With time you’ll be able to learn more rapidly and with the tune played at faster tempos. Record the tunes at jam sessions and then go home and learn them by ear. Eventually you’ll get to the point where you can learn tunes on the fly at jam sessions.

As others here have said, start with easy stuff. Pick out Twinkle Twinkle Litte Star, the Happy Birthday Song, or catchy TV Theme Songs like the theme song from Andy Griffith. Then try them in different keys. For picking out chords, start with easy stuff like old time or country or blues, which generally just have the I, IV, and V chords. Once you figure out the root chord, when you hear a chord change try the IV and V chords and see which one sounds right.

Finally, find a picking buddy or teacher or mentor to help you figure out this stuff. And make sure you keep it fun.

[Lobotomy Boy]

"Bass" is used for mulitple examples of the same species; "Basses" is used when referring to different species of Micropterous such as the largemouth, smallmouth, Kentucky, warmouth, etc. But I digress.

My other son is a wildlife biologist; I should have checked this out with him. He works with waterfowl now, but in college he specialized in fish.

About a week ago a friend borrowed me one of his old basses (guitar, not Micopterous), and I've found that to be much easier to pick up by ear. Perhaps that's because the bass lines are generally simpler than guitar parts or because the bass sound cuts through the overall mix a bit more clearly than guitar sounds. Whatever, so far I've been able to pretty much pick up all the bass lines from the songs I;ve been listening too. I'm going to try U2's "One" the next time I get a chance.

[DanielJones]

Its just time and practice. I been playing for ten years and it is only beginning to make real sense I can now think about what i will be playing next with improvisation and how i want my playing to sound. just keep at it and play along with music or with other people. this will help i found watching other people play helps alot i spent alot of time watching eric clapton buddy guy amongst others.

[CandyAppleHead]

Originally Posted by Lobotomy Boy

My other son is a wildlife biologist; I should have checked this out with him. He works with waterfowl now, but in college he specialized in fish.

About a week ago a friend borrowed me one of his old basses (guitar, not Micopterous), and I've found that to be much easier to pick up by ear. Perhaps that's because the bass lines are generally simpler than guitar parts or because the bass sound cuts through the overall mix a bit more clearly than guitar sounds. Whatever, so far I've been able to pretty much pick up all the bass lines from the songs I;ve been listening too. I'm going to try U2's "One" the next time I get a chance.

That reminds me of when I started playing, and I would try to work out what the chords were by listening to the bass. I would get frustrated when I played the chord of the bass note I was hearing, and it wouldn't sound right, but then it began to dawn on me that someties the bass was picking out chord tones other than the root, meaning that the chords I was playing were wrong. An example might be when your hear the bass play G-F#-E, but the chords are G-D-Em.

[Lobotomy Boy]

If you want something really simple and elemental like "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star," but fun and cool, check out The Cramps "Goo Goo Muck."

Goo Goo Muck