Learning Guitar By Ear

Ntmanning · July 3rd, 2009, 06:16 PM

This is slightly in response to the thread about how you learned you first guitar song, and also by my complete inability to figure out a song by ear. I have had several problems in learning guitar and every time I have been helped out a great deal by everyone here. I hope I can get some more help!!

I really, really wish to be able to learn by ear and I feel a little dirty each time I have to go to look for tabs. At first I just thought it was being a beginner and needing to put more time into it, but after spending some time with my neighbor today I think I have some serious work ahead of me. I have tried learning many simple songs, or transcribing short riffs and I can't seem to get a single thing right. I have tried using Justinguitar to help out, specifically with this: Free Guitar Lessons - BC-118 ? JUSTIN...stin Sandercoe

Basically he plays chords and you write down what you think they are etc...I have a lot of trouble doing this. My neighbor who has a guitar but can't play did all the exercises on there and didn't use his guitar and was able to hear the differences and he said it was very clear to him. He was shocked that i couldn't hear a difference or if I did it was just very slight. I even have trouble hearing between major and minor chords, even though I know what to listen for.

So, any help at all? Please?

Tyler

tready · July 3rd, 2009, 07:01 PM

well the way i used to do it when i first started was just listen to the song over and over untill i could here the song tune in my head. then just try and play it a section at a time compering against the record then when id got the first part right id play it over and over untill i could play that part without looking at my hand. thats when u no its sunk in and hand memmory as taken over, then i go to the next section and so on. its not easy when you first start it took me months to learn apache. so i wouldnt get stressed out. try learning a shadows tune like apache or something like that as its like 1 note at a time which is easer than trying to hear a whole cord. that will come with time.apart from that there isnt much i can really say to help you its something you have to do your self. good look

beep.click · July 3rd, 2009, 07:13 PM

Just keep at it -- it comes in time!

Steelskin · July 3rd, 2009, 07:29 PM

Im not one for playing by ear. My ear consists of knowing when it sounds good or sounds like crap and does not fit. I have a weird talent for patterns and that how i have learned thus far. But as i play more and more, especially with a band, i think my ear has definatly got better. I adapt to keys, but i know if i didnt know my patterns, it would be harder to point out my notes. I know a lot of people dont like scales and modes but i think learning those have been the most productive thing i have ever learned as a musician.

There is one guy in my life that stands out the most, i have known him since high school. he has audio photo memory. He plays 100% by ear, but he doesnt learn songs he learns albums. JUst the way he taught himself using a cassette player. Its amazing to see him run through an album in his head till he hits the song he is looking for, then plays it like its nothing. Anyone else have this ability? sry for the long wind ;)

Ntmanning · July 3rd, 2009, 07:38 PM

I just started trying to follow along this:

Happy New Ear - Guitar Noise

So far spending a few hours just working on intervals I still don't know what I'm doing.

phildobbin · July 3rd, 2009, 07:50 PM

To play by ear involves just what it says: find a song that really gets your rocks off & then listen to it over & over again (fortunately nowdays there's MP3 players, computers, etc: no need to keep lifting the arm off the vinyl ;-).

Blues is always a good place to start. Three chords maximum usually. The most important thing, IMO, is to learn the basic major/minor scales then find a couple of songs you really like & just jam along to them. &, of course, enjoy yourself. You'll cut down on the work if you really get off on what you're doing...

Good luck & may you never hear surf music again :-)

ThreeHands · July 3rd, 2009, 07:55 PM

Hey Tyler, It sounds like you may have "drummers ear" (he he just kiding around)

You need to learn your scales and modes. Over time your ear will come in to tune, you just need to put in the effort.

You could start by playing your guitar with a blind fold and play the songs you already know.

8upss · July 3rd, 2009, 08:54 PM

I learned to play by ear and eye (watching other players) starting from the time I was 13.

I have no qualms about using whatever resources are available to make the process faster and more accurate. I've often said if we'd had You Tube when I was a kid I'd be a much better player now.

It's incredible how many things I have re-learned the "right" way!

I don't consider it cheating, it just gets you started on the right foot. You still have to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!

phildobbin · July 3rd, 2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8upss

I don't consider it cheating, it just gets you started on the right foot. You still have to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!

That's the golden rule. Practice 'til yer fingers bleed. Then practice some more

still_fiddlin · July 3rd, 2009, 09:59 PM

Listen and play is my only suggestion. And I mean, a lot. Play along with something you've got the chords to and listen while you are playing to hear the changes. Then try to hear those same changes in another song. See if you are right. Sooner or later, you'll start hearing things you already know. Bit of chicken and egg, because you have to know how to play something and have played an interval enough times to recognize it in another song, so there's really no such thing as cheating. Anything that puts more music in your head makes hearing the notes & chords in other peoples music easier. Keep plugging away.

Yeah, thank heavens for MP3 and digital aids. My LPs probably look like they've been under mortar attack from all the needle drops....

tready · July 3rd, 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8upss

I learned to play by ear and eye (watching other players) starting from the time I was 13.

I have no qualms about using whatever resources are available to make the process faster and more accurate. I've often said if we'd had You Tube when I was a kid I'd be a much better player now.

It's incredible how many things I have re-learned the "right" way!

I don't consider it cheating, it just gets you started on the right foot. You still have to PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!

trouble with watching ppl on utube is how do you no there playing it proply iv watched loads on utube especialy hotel california and theres like 20 diffrent examples of it if your learning how do you no whats the right way. plus shed loads of tab on the net isnt correct. iv even seen ppl on utube givig lessons when they carnt even play proply what there trying to teach lol all the great players like clapton and so on didnt have utube they just practiced loads

phildobbin · July 3rd, 2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by still_fiddlin

Yeah, thank heavens for MP3 and digital aids. My LPs probably look like they've been under mortar attack from all the needle drops....

Only reason to get a girlfriend in those days so you could tell her drop it back a chorus on the LP so you could concentrate (well, I am lying but this is a family forum)

bowhunter · July 3rd, 2009, 10:21 PM

[quote=ThreeHands;82314]

You need to learn your scales and modes. Over time your ear will come in to tune, you just need to put in the effort.

Very true,,,Learning scales,,Definitely helps you learn the tone of notes!!!

Ntmanning · July 3rd, 2009, 10:37 PM

I would love for some recommendations for simple songs to transcribe. Or simple riffs and stuff like that for me to take a crack at. I have attempted doing this stuff several different occasions and haven't gotten anything to show for it, but I am determined this time to finally see some results.

This guy has a cool 9 part video series trying to teach you how to do it. Very helpful, just need to get better at recognizing what I hear.

YouTube - Guitar Lesson - How To Play By Ear 1 -...

And I'm using this trainer to hopefully work on my ears. Interval Ear Trainer I really feel like I have crappy hearing. Especially when sitting next to my neighbor and him getting everything in his first try without a guitar in his hand. And I can't get anything right! This is very embarresing, but we tried transcribing House of the Rising Sun together and I thought he played the same chord over and over! I just don't hear that big of a difference between a lot of stuff.

I know the pentatonic scales and practice all of them every day. I do not know the major scales, so I have already added them to what I need to start working on memorizing.

bowhunter · July 3rd, 2009, 10:59 PM

Just remember this,,,Keep it fun!!!!When you get frustrated,Put it away and start back another day!!!!

still_fiddlin · July 3rd, 2009, 11:27 PM

That's a good video - just what I was trying to say. It's experience on your instrument that is critical, but it's not *just* time.

I had played trumpet several years and got in my first soul band, and couldn't pick out the parts at all. The sax player, thankfully my best friend, would pick out the parts and teach them to me. I was amazed, because I never thought he was that great, but he could do something I couldn't.

You have to start to listen to music in a different way so you are hearing what's going on, not just tapping your foot, if you get my drift. This is whether you are casually listening or playing yourself.

johnreardon · July 4th, 2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntmanning

T..

I really, really wish to be able to learn by ear and I feel a little dirty each time I have to go to look for tabs. ..

Tyler

Hi Tyler remember that us old chaps didn't have things like the internet when we learned, so we had to rely on our ears listening to records on little record players.

There is no reason to feel dirty or think you are cheating by using tabs. I bet most of us would have used them if they had been around back in the 60/70s. Use whatever method, whether it that involves tabs, sheet music or your own ears.

Best advice I can offer, is to get out there and play with as many other guitarists as you can. Jamming or playing with others will improve your ears

Offshore Angler · July 4th, 2009, 06:45 AM

I'm a little concerned that you can't tell a major from a minor chord by ear. That's a pretty significant difference. If you are trying to learn by ear and cannot make that difference out, you may have a rough row to hoe.

All the practice in the world won't help if your ears can't give you the feedback you need.

I think what you should do in this case is find a piano and sit down and play or have somebody else play the chords and SEE the difference and let your ears and your eyes work together to get the differences.

If you choose to work with the guitar, don't play the whole chord to start. Play the 1, the 3, and the 5 only and get a feel for chords. Move the 3rd down a half step and notice how the chord goes from happy to sad.

Hint: the E chord is perfect for this.

Emajor
0
0
1
2
2
0

Eminor

0
0
0
2
2
0

That should get you started.

Vanmanradio · July 4th, 2009, 06:52 AM

I Think a good way of training your ear is by playing and listening to lots of music. As many people have already said, it comes with time, i think you'll find that one day you'll hear a chord and think, 'oh, thats gotta be minor/major'. I found that after time you'll get progressively better at it. maybe you'll start off being able to distinguish chord types, then eventually notes and intervals. It's also good to be able to hear the difference between a scale and an arpeggio.

i wish there was a really fast-track way to doing it, but i dont think there really is, people learn at different paces in different ways. one thing is certain though; you keep practising, and you Will learn to do it.

best of luck.

Ntmanning · July 4th, 2009, 08:21 AM

I notice a difference between the majors and minors, but I don't think I notice it as significantly that I should. My neighbor and I sat down and listened to 5 chords that were either D or Dm and I thought they sounded pretty similar. I can detect a difference, but my neighbor says he notices a very big difference between the 2 of them.

I haven't had to much trouble actually playing the guitar. I mean some stuff has slowed me down but I can tell all the time that I can progressing, but all of this is brickwalling me.

tready · July 5th, 2009, 02:25 PM

play a simple A chord then play a Cmaj7sus2addII if you carnt tell the diffrence id say your tone deaf

phildobbin · July 5th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tready

play a simple A chord then play a Cmaj7sus2addII if you carnt tell the diffrence id say your tone deaf

That's nice of you, Segovia. Don't give up your day job...

Giant · July 5th, 2009, 05:16 PM

i think you are worrying about it too much. you have to try it a lot. i dunno how long you've been playing, but dont let this get you down. just find some songs where the main riff is single notes. one song is "Bombtrack" by RATM. simple riff. its in standard tuning and the main riff is based on F#. just give it a shot.

as far as "cheating" goes, using tabs is not cheating. ESPECIALLY with the quality of internet tabs. thats whats cool about it-you can find some half-a** tab, but then you gotta use your ear to make sure its right. thats good practice too. i know that if i had youtube and whatnot when i started playing, i woulda been all over it!

just stay positive, and dont worry about your neighbor. ha ha.

Lobotomy Boy · July 5th, 2009, 05:28 PM

My guitar teacher is uncanny in his ability to pick out chords and notes, but he has a degree in music theory. In our last lesson he assigned me a project in which I'm supposed to identify notes in certain riffs in one of his band's songs. He wrote out the basic patternsn he used so I wasn't working completely blind. It seemed easy when we were going over it at my lesson, but when I got home I became completely hopeless. I think we're going to have to work on this one for another week or two.

Ntmanning · July 5th, 2009, 10:26 PM

Right now I have put a hold on actually trying to transcribe stuff. If I can't really hear a difference, then I shouldn't try to apply listening by ear to trying to figure stuff out. I am working on some ear training with the online trainer for intervals and am testing out a few apps from the iTunes Store to use on my iPhone to work on intervals. And I am hoping to try to continue working from justinguitar to work with identifying chords. And I am also trying to study more music theory, I think this may come in handy when it gets to the transcribing stuff.

Thanks for all the help and support. I did contact a local guitar store that teaches lessons to see if they offer any lessons to help specifically with ear training. I have a friend who has played guitar for 12 years and he said he has a lot of trouble with it as well, so I don't feel to bad.

phildobbin · July 5th, 2009, 10:31 PM

It's good you're putting so much effort in. Practice & keep listening to music you like: it'll pay off in the long run. I've been playing 41 years this year. It ain't no short bus ride ;-)... just try to relax & enjoy yourself.

Good luck!

tready · July 5th, 2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phildobbin

That's nice of you, Segovia. Don't give up your day job...

ay i wasnt being nasty to the guy i was being serious if he carnt tell those 2 cords hes prob tone deaf as there totally tonely diffrent so up yours ass hole

choronzon777 · July 6th, 2009, 05:21 AM

Folks I have a couple of very good ear training courses that I *may* be able to make available for next to nothing - PM me if you want further details.

Thanks

David

Ntmanning · July 6th, 2009, 07:10 AM

I can hear differences between chords, its just not as distinct as I think for most people. I'm sure its something I can work on and get better at, its just been frustrating so far.

Sending PM now David.

GuitarSmithTN · July 6th, 2009, 08:08 AM

You become a musician by listening/imitating/innovating. I have a music degree and all the technical knowledge is invaluable, but you first learn by copying. People connect to the rhythm and note contour of melodies/riffs. For example, play a silly tune like "Mary had a Little Lamb" and use the same rhythm and note contour/shape (with totally different notes) and you will instantly recognize it. (start with note 1 -- go down for note 2 -- down for n3 -- up for n4 -- up for n5 (repeat 3 times), etc. This is the same way we learn LANGUAGE, and music is the same.

Practically, you must be in tune with the recording (some guitarists tune to Eb or anywhere else in between). You can find this knowledge online or (better yet) you'll figure out that if (in standard tuning A440) the riff is in Ab, it's most likely played in A (with the 5th string) and not on the 6th string, 4th fret! Proper fingering/picking comes with experience (and I will/can play most riffs in several ways).

Zeppelin riffs are great! Start with "Heartbreaker" and see if you can figure out the notes and then a logical fingering. Listen to the rhythm and note contour, find the FIRST note or the note that sounds like the root (home base) and go from there. For chords, start with the root notes and then try to fill the chords out. After you can play with the recording, play with a metronome (or drum machine...or your band) and see what you can do.

Do this for 50-100 tunes and you'll start to get better. You have to work at it.

Shades of Blue · July 6th, 2009, 08:27 AM

Either you can play by ear or you can't.

I happen to play by ear and I can hear a song one time and figure it out quite easily. I have always been like this.

My best friend in high school on the other hand took lessons and knew theory up, down, side to side, and backwards. He could play any scale you wanted and he was really good on paper.

But, throw that guy in a band situation and he sucked. He couldn't play a thing that wasn't written down on a piece of paper in front of him.

If you can't play by ear, it isn't the end of the world, but it really REALLY helps in band situations.

Lobotomy Boy · July 6th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

I am also trying to study more music theory, I think this may come in handy when it gets to the transcribing stuff.

Right now I'm just trying to learn to play some songs, but if I get a little better I'm going to at least relearn reading music. A guy who teaches guitar at a local music store told me that he believes that you can't really learn to play unless you understand keys, and you can't really understand keys unless you know what notes you're playing. And you can't learn that from tabs. When I get to be a bit more competent I think I'm going to start working on that. Right now I've got my hands full learning barre chords and strumming patterns and things like that.

johnreardon · July 6th, 2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarSmithTN

You become a musician by listening/imitating/innovating. .t it.

I would have to add 'Playing', which to me is just as important

Earthman · July 6th, 2009, 01:16 PM

I agree with Still Fiddlin'. Really listening deeply to music is a skill that takes some practice. Get comfortable with headphones on, close your eyes, and really listen to a song. Then, go back and focus on just one instrument at a time. This helped me a lot. I really got a feel for the chord and note changes and how the song was assembled by simply listening without any distractions. You'll get it.

Bundini · July 7th, 2009, 01:46 AM

Start with the Blues, thats my advice' the blues are the roots the rest are the fruits. Start out with the minor pentatonic, just the first main box / pattern and you can play with most blues/jazz and rock pieces right off the bat. Then learn all the patterns for a key and then go to the major and you have some good tools. Then learn a three chord progression and turnaround.

CandyAppleHead · July 7th, 2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bundini

Start with the Blues, thats my advice' the blues are the roots the rest are the fruits. Start out with the minor pentatonic, just the first main box / pattern and you can play with most blues/jazz and rock pieces right off the bat. Then learn all the patterns for a key and then go to the major and you have some good tools. Then learn a three chord progression and turnaround.

Not sure I'd agree with that. I'd say start with the major scale. It's fundamental to understanding harmony and melody in western music. With blues, there are contradictions - you play a minor scale over major (OK dominant 7) chords. That's going to confuse the OP especially if, as he has said, he's having trouble distinguishing between major and minor sounds. Once he has grasped the basic tonal concepts from the major scale I'd then look at the major pentatonic and then onto the minor pentatonic.

Ntmanning · July 7th, 2009, 08:12 AM

I know the minor pentatonic scales and practice going through them everyday along with several other exercises.

I got to say this still is super frustrating. I do the same chord recognition at Justinguitar everyday and every single day I get the E and A's backwards on 1 of the exercises. Then I do some interval training and today I started of 1 for 10. Its basically just me guessing.

GuitarSmithTN · July 7th, 2009, 08:20 AM

Have you connected intervals to familiar melodies? You sing/hum the 2 notes (if they're played together; separately is easier) and connect it to the melody? For example, (1) Perfect 4th: "Here comes the Bride"; Perfect 5th: "Oh-e-oh, e-oh-o" (Wizard of Oz); Major 6th: "N-B-C" (old TV station melody); Minor 3rd: "Lullaby...", etc.

Lobotomy Boy · July 7th, 2009, 09:45 AM

This has been a helpful thread. It's inspired me to practice more challenging techniques, which in turn has made practicing more interesting.

Eight Ball · July 7th, 2009, 09:58 AM

Certain things I can work out by ear, other things I can't, it tends to be more about state of mind rather than any technical ability with me, I stick on Cream, for eg. and I can feel it, it moves me to the core it it hits that sweet spot inside me, so I can be playing just by knowing some very basic concepts and my hands just do it really, I don't have to sit there concentrating with some things, in fact I'm worse at that, just improvising along and a lick will happen, without my thought or anything, i can just be jamming along and then realise, "wait, I just done the same lick" without even trying.

I've learned most of the parts in White Room, Badge and Outside Woman Blues by doing this, I've learned many little licks (especially on acoustic) that I can just adjust for my own personal use just by playing along, eventually there does come points where you need to learn some theory but it just needs to happen in little chunks.