Partscaster (warmoth) Vs American Standard

[Starbuck12]

Man I just got a American Standard strat and I want to sell my Gibson Firebird Studio for a telecaster. I can't believe how much I love this new fender. So my question is about a warmoth parts telecaster vs a american standard tele. which do you think is better? I understand the whole allure of picking out every piece of the guitar, my concern is, even if I stick with the standard maple neck alder body combo and decent pups, how do I know this partscaster isnt going to be a dog.....HELP


here is what I spec'ed out as far as general prices for what the partscaster will cost. As far as American standards, there are some good deals at GC and can get a american standard tele for under 1k.

the bodies are going for about 230 - 280, a custom neck for about 300-400 and some fralin pickups for about 160. Throw in some electronics and hardware plus have a tech put it all together for me and that will prob be another 300-400 bucks. for a grand total of 1240 on the high end.

so basically a partscaster will be slightly more will it be worth the extra clams?????

[Tafmutt]

That's the $64,000 question!

I look upon Partscasters as a labor of love (mostly because re-sale values on Partscasters are a bit dicey).

On the positive side, Partscasters are a lot of fun to build and a real learning experience in terms of getting into the guts of what makes the instrument hum.

To address your concern as to whether it will be worth the claims, I've met very few people who were dissatisfied with their Partscaster(s). That's mostly because, if they don't like a particular feature, they just swap it out and install something else.

Whatever you decide, best of luck -- and let us know what you decide/how it turns out.


TM

[hendrixfan]

i dunno man,tuff choice i,d go and play some teles in my price range see if anything bonded with me,if not i,d go down the warmoth route or maybe a custom build

[Ray-Boy]

It's just so subjective. I've got little money in my Partscasters because I scrounge the 'net and Craig's and so forth for the components and bottom-feed for them. The two I've gotten complete are really special TO ME, maybe because of the sweat equity. As an example, I have a sea-foam hard-tail with maple neck and Seymour Duncan VIntage at the neck and middle and Duncan Hot Rail at the bridge. I've got less than $200 in it and when you tear off a lick in a music store, ears perk up like somebody blew a super-sonic whistle in a dog pound.

And there might be a sense of my own playing not being good enough to justify paying retail for guitars. But, as was said above, if you have a Partscaster and don't like one part, you're not going to compromise the integrity of a factory build by replacing it.

And it all comes down to individual hands and ears.

[CeltRocka]

Hers my partscaster built from parts off ebay :
25yr old Washburn USA body[rubbed down]
WD neck
USA std loaded pickguard
Wilkinson trem and tuners

All in all an Am Fender quality build for £160[$250] and the added fun of choosing a combination of colours and parts i wouldnt usually go for

[Batocaster]

It certainly is subjective.

On the other hand, as I've said before, I have two Warmoth necks, the more expensive of which cost $135 + $30 for the graphite nut. Most would consider them at least the equal of a Fender factory neck, probably better. I have no idea what you're planning on getting in the way of a custom neck for $300-$400, but is comparing it's cost with a run-of-the-mill American Standard neck really fair? Nor do you get Fralin pickups on the Fender. You're also factoring in paying someone else for custom assembly and setup of your chosen parts, vs. "take it like it comes out" factory builds. All the customization has value as well as cost.

I think to do a valid cost comparison, the results also have to be comparable. Comparing the cost of an ordinary MIA factory Fender with highly customized Warmoth, maybe not so valid. Might come closer with an Allparts build...

I'll be (or am slowly) doing two builds, Warmoth necks, MIM bodies, Wilkinson and GFS trems, Fender SCN and BG pups, looks like it will be Gotoh and Schaller tuners, some Fender bits and pieces, and so on. I think each will end up around $600, not counting my labor. I'm confident that they will be better than whatever Fender is selling at that price point. Certainly putting them together is much more fun than just buying one, and if I do more, the next ones will be easier, better, and likely cheaper still.

This gets debated a lot, but it never seems to go anywhere. I think that the "Factory knows best" and "DIY" crowds are just fundamentally different types of people, each of which will never be much tempted by the others' approach. If you're not tempted to put together your own Strat, then it probably will never seem worth it to you. If you are, probably nothing else will really do.

[Ray-Boy]

Agree with Batocaster about the necks. A nice Warmoth neck just seems like all the neck most players will ever need. I don't know what could be done on a $400 neck that couldn't be done on a Warmoth for a lot less buckage.

But you have to do whatever grills your cheese. If it's worth it to your hands and ears to pay those prices and have somebody else do the luthery (is that even a word?), then good on ya.

CELTROCKA, love your Strat.

[HopDog]

Two words...Ron Kirn

[Bloodtoes]

What does an average Ron Kirn Custom cost?

[tonyw]

I only roll my own now, after making my strat i wont buy off the shelf anymore, its fantastic absolutely everything i wanted. Only guitar i might purchase is a cheap 335 clone. Theres so much more you can do to a tele to make it your own without parting out big bucks for the name Fender. The guitar in my sig is my baritone mocked up all warmoth body and neck beautiful workmanship

[bighaze51]

I wanted to comment on your new strat, Tony. I likey. I just got my warmoth neck in today and she's now officially a part of my partscaster. I am still, to this day, yet to play a MIA strat that i like more than my partscaster. Especially now that i have this new neck. But, i also started tinkering and modding my first bullet strat when i was in high school. If you are wanting to go with a custom build but don't have the experience, buy a $20 craigslist special and take it apart and put it back together and switch stuff out. There is a wealth of info online to help with your build. Strat-Talk being one very informative source. Thanks guys

[HopDog]

Originally Posted by Bloodtoes

What does an average Ron Kirn Custom cost?

I think they are in the vicinity of $1500 for a tele...I'm sure someone who actually has enough money to own one could chime in here.

The "right" (to you) American standard for under $1K sounds like a pretty good bet too. I had a great sunburst in my hands at GC around Thanksgiving but couldn't/didn't pull the trigger. "Custom" partscaster would in all likelihood be amazing too...I don't think there is a bad answer in the bunch!

HD

[TexasFury]

There's no guarantee. I jumped into the partscaster pool in 1987, buying parts here and there because I didn't have the money to buy something decent in one purchase. Warmoth alder 1H rear routed body, neck from Music Emporium, M22SD pickup, Schaller Mini Tuners, Kahler Pro. The local luthier assembled it. Should be a kicking metal axe, eh?

WRONG! It was the WORST playing, WORST feeling, WORST sounding guitar I've known. The sound was thin and uninspiring. It sustained less than a washtub bass. I've never been more disappointed in my life. I'd have been better off just buying a Hondo or a Memphis, it certainly would have been 20X better than what that POS was.

Because of that experience, to this day I have stayed away from making a partcaster. Unlike you guys I just don't have the money to piss away on crapshoots.

[tonyw]

no pissing money away no crap shoot here, i painstakingly go over every aspect of what i am doing, wiring every piece together thinking every bit through and only using quality parts. I have saved thousands and the guitar has been praised by people who work on strats all day as one of the best playing best sounding they have heard, guess i just got lucky huh

[Batocaster]

Originally Posted by TexasFury

There's no guarantee. I jumped into the partscaster pool in 1987, buying parts here and there because I didn't have the money to buy something decent in one purchase. Warmoth alder 1H rear routed body, neck from Music Emporium, M22SD pickup, Schaller Mini Tuners, Kahler Pro. The local luthier assembled it. Should be a kicking metal axe, eh?

WRONG! It was the WORST playing, WORST feeling, WORST sounding guitar I've known. The sound was thin and uninspiring. It sustained less than a washtub bass. I've never been more disappointed in my life. I'd have been better off just buying a Hondo or a Memphis, it certainly would have been 20X better than what that POS was.

Because of that experience, to this day I have stayed away from making a partcaster. Unlike you guys I just don't have the money to piss away on crapshoots.

I'm sorry.. don't wish to be argumentative or give offense (and I'm likely just feeding a troll), but l'm not buying it at all. From the words "buy something decent" your bias was obvious.

You're making a huge leap in saying that since you're sure you think you did everything "right" and it didn't turn out well, it's all just a matter of chance, and it must not be possible for anyone to ever be sure of their results.

Since there ARE people who have built several dozen with consistently excellent results, and since (in my limited experience) they even seem to get less picky about the parts they start with as they gain skill, I have to say that if one of my own builds turns out badly (which is certainly possible, I have no prior experience) I hope I'll accept some responsibility and not just insist that it's all a "crapshoot", and I'm pretty sure I'll continue to analyze and try to correct whatever problems there may be rather than just giving up and proclaiming to the world that the effort is useless.

There are a lot of variables, but Strat clones are inherently pretty simple MACHINES in which ALL parts are replaceable. That being the case, it's pretty hard to accept that there can be mysterious and unknowable things wrong with one that just cannot be corrected.

Even if you (or I) become convinced that there's something inherently wrong with one or more of the parts, who chose the parts? If the "luthier" was really an incompetent hack, who chose the luthier? Exactly where does "crapshoot" enter the picture, and why is it completely impossible to avoid it?

Calling it a "crapshoot" is saying that it's all a matter of chance. If that were true, there would be NO individuals and NO factories turning out consistently excellent guitars. It doesn't seem to be a matter of chance for THEM, so unless you regard them as superhuman deities of some sort, it must, somehow, be at least possible to remove the chance from your own builds as well.

[Orlando Mike]

I understand what he's saying....and I have built more than a few (20+). The ones that didnt turn out the way I'd hoped got more tlc and moneydropped into them, to bring them up to par. I think what Texas Fury is pointing out is that buying a guitar (a whole one or in parts without playing it first is a crapshoot, and I agree with him.) I love to build my own, and it's how I now choose to aquire my instruments...after assembling all the ones I have, it has become less of a crapshoot, and I am pretty proud of the final product...

[gonzo]

i gotta say, i think the USACG product is better.
that's the one i went with, after taking apart (3) warmoth strats!
LOL
tested them all, ab/d against the usacg stuff.
just something else to consider

[gonzo]

my USACG strat project





(headshot)




(bill lawrence pickups, and the hipshot trem)



(backshot)


body: lightweight Alder 2-piece, with a contoured heel, routed for a 2-post
Hipshot trem, non locking, side jack, fall-away cut out on the back side of the bottom bout.

pickups: humbucker-single-single, Bill Lawrence L-500L and 2-280s (n & m)
Q filter for the L-500L wired to 'tone pot', and a master volume.

neck: hardrock maple neck, with a pau ferro fingerboard. 6150 frets, 1-5/8" nut width. small fender-style headstock
Gibson scale length neck, 22 frets, fingerboard radius, of 12". the shape of the neck is a thin "C" shape,
with a .78" neck thickness at the 1st fret, up to .85 at the 13th, mother of pearl dot inlays.

headstock: tiltback design, 13 degrees, graphtech nut.


neck-$246
body-$170
pickups-2x40 + 1x50=$130
Q filter- $20
bridge w/steel sustain block-$120 (luthier's price)
custom warmoth scratchplate-$35
odd hardware- $40
custom finish-$200
Sperzel tuners-$65
__________________
$1026

[Razorc195]

Parts are hit and miss, go for Whole accuracy and light weight on the body, depends on the wood and age. the neck is really critical, and is like Pizza, everyone likes something different. If your going with one of the aftermarket necks (fender licenced of course) be very, very careful. be specific expect to pay around $300 Minimum for a fretted and dressed neck. and be prepared to send it back if its not perfect. Oh, and be patient. I ordered mine, custom made, waited 3 months and had to send it back twice to get it right.... but, just work with it....after all its a project. Just remember, Fender Lic.'d, means that they paid to get the prints for the parts. Fender never goes back to check up on these guys to see if its done right....and the word from fender is that they don't care. so be patient,and very picky. its you money and their reputation. I would not suggest using anything other than a flat finish on a neck. stain and sealer...much faster neck(not sticky)....like Gonzo above, you can get what you want for around $1K to 1.3K and a little work...

Look to the Left. This is a 1962 US RI made in 1982 body, 1957 9.25" radius V neck w/21 med SS jumbos. vintage tremlo Bridge, Amlafatano vintage pickups(as close as I've heard to red bobbins), vintage Kluson tuners, bone nut, mint pickguard. Plays like a dream. total weight. 6 pounds 4oz. ....... and next to my wife, PRICELESS.

[tonyw]

Originally Posted by bighaze51

I wanted to comment on your new strat, Tony. I likey. I just got my warmoth neck in today and she's now officially a part of my partscaster. I am still, to this day, yet to play a MIA strat that i like more than my partscaster. Especially now that i have this new neck. But, i also started tinkering and modding my first bullet strat when i was in high school. If you are wanting to go with a custom build but don't have the experience, buy a $20 craigslist special and take it apart and put it back together and switch stuff out. There is a wealth of info online to help with your build. Strat-Talk being one very informative source. Thanks guys

Hope your build turns out fantastic for you.

I get to play plenty of strats and i mean plenty, one close friend is a dealer in vintage guitars the other is a second generation luthier whom the bulk of his work is strats, speak to either of these guys about some of Fenders stuff ups and it will make your hair curl. Its like anything nothing is not prone to being a lemon.

The bulk of my wiring work i do for these guys involves Fenders wiring not coming up to scratch or pickup failures so which is good better or best as far as partscater or a Fender is the only crapshoot.

Warmoth or USACG i use both, both have great products although i am shifting away to totally doing it all myself but i must say these companies have a 100% good rating with me, but if you put out enough product someones going to get something with a problem its all the law of percentages but to just write off people making their own guitars as pissing away money and a crap shoot is naive and totally unfounded. One bad build in 1987 thats 1 against the 10,000's good ones puts the statment more into percpective as unfounded overall.

[kwalker]

First of all, I wouldn't build a "partscaster" to save money.
Secondly, if Fender makes one you like as is, then get it.
Otherwise, if you feel qualified to put together a guitar and know what you want, then you could end up with a very nice guitar.

I really wanted to get a 1962 (year I was born) tobacco sunburst v-neck strat someday, but they are just too expensive these days. In the 70's, you could get one for $800.

I looked at new strats, but i wanted to try a more modern non-locking bridge and noiseless pickups. I eventually got a Warmoth (got to pick my own body, neck and finish, etc.), Fender vintage noiseless pickups...

However, I hated the pickups (no balls). I now have Fralin Blues Specials and love them. In other words, I didn't get it right the first time. I also have changed to caps to get the electronics more to my liking.

Even in my Fender Flame guitar have been rewired.

In a nutshell, for me it is all about getting the guitar to play and sound exactly how I want.

Your mileage may vary.

[kwalker]

First of all, I wouldn't build a "partscaster" to save money.
Secondly, if Fender makes one you like as is, then get it.
Otherwise, if you feel qualified to put together a guitar and know what you want, then you could end up with a very nice guitar.

I really wanted to get a 1962 (year I was born) tobacco sunburst v-neck strat someday, but they are just too expensive these days. In the 70's, you could get one for $800.

I looked at new strats, but i wanted to try a more modern non-locking bridge and noiseless pickups. I eventually got a Warmoth (got to pick my own body, neck and finish, etc.), Fender vintage noiseless pickups...

However, I hated the pickups (no balls). I now have Fralin Blues Specials and love them. In other words, I didn't get it right the first time. I also have changed to caps to get the electronics more to my liking.

My only factory guitar (Fender Flame) has been rewired.

In a nutshell, for me it is all about getting the guitar to play and sound exactly how I want.

Your mileage may vary.

[Starbuck12]

thanks for all the feedback guys, I didnt mean to create a huge debate or anything. Just looking to you guys who clearly know way more then I do about this sort of thing.

[Batocaster]

Originally Posted by kwalker

Otherwise, if you feel qualified to put together a guitar...

I'd just add... or, if you want to BECOME qualified, if you value the learning as much as the results, then what other choice is there? Unless you happen to have a mentor that will ease you into it a step at a time, and most of us never will, then you won't ever become qualified without trying it BEFORE you're qualified. You have to be a first-time builder once. If that means making mistakes, well, that's what it's about.

I've done research, I've read and learned a great deal, but I have no illusions that either of these first two will be my "ideal" guitar, I never did. This is how I learn enough for that to eventually be possible.

[Musician78]

Is it still a partscaster if you use only Fender parts?

[orcslayer]

It's not necessary to spend a lot on a Partscaster to get a nice Strat. Depends if you want the prestige of Warmoth body, etc.

Case in point: I bought a Chinese Jay Turser "Vintage" Strat for $225 Cdn a few years ago. It had a bush league neck & noisy pups, BUT it had a great candy apple red body, & servicable vintage style tuners & bridge.

I swapped out neck & pups, adding a Mighty Mite vintage 71/4" radius maple neck, & Kinman noiseless "Hank Marvin" pups. I rewired the controls with US made Switchcraft pots & switch & modded the lower tone control to work on the bridge pup instead of the middle pup. I also "blocked" the bridge with a piece of hardwood Eric Clepton style to increase sustain.

Now it's my favourite AX, & also my bandmates - they like the sound better than my AM STD Strat.

[Orlando Mike]

Originally Posted by Musician78

Is it still a partscaster if you use only Fender parts?

yes

[amstratnut]

Partscaster..hmm. I have a freind who owns a local music shop and he had a parts caster on the wall. It was very very cool. I liked it right away. Turns out it was his and he got a 52 reissue and now doesn't need it. He's got 1100 into it and asking 699. I just dunno. that guitar was *****in but......

I'd be careful about cheapo bodies. My experience is limited but it has been my experience that when a strat sounds icepick it has a lot to do with the body.

[Ronkirn]

The origin of the parts is meaningless…

All . . . and to the Masterbuilt CS aficionados, I mean all . . .production bodies and necks are made on computer controlled shapers.

The only specifications that mean anything would be, are the frets correctly spaced and is the bridge location correct, everything else is subjective…. , you like the shape of the neck or you don’t, the same is true of the body. You may safely conclude that all CNC machines are cutting the fret slots in the correct places. If the body is being shaped by a CNC in Washington State, Corona California or Ensenada Mexico really doesn’t mean a darn thing.. the wood doesn’t know where it was shaped and the CNC machines are all made by the same few companies. The 3 phase 240 VAC is the same also.

There are for the most part only two types of truss rods available… one allows movement in 2 directions, the other is more vintage in design. Both are made of mild steel, thus “quality” doesn’t mean much. The Gotoh side adjust gizmo on the Warmoth pro necks it a piece of Cack. Most ruin it the first time you “screw” with it.

Therefore… it’s the assembly that makes or breaks the guitar/partscaster… With the American Standard, you have a “team” of line workers running in screws, watching the clock waiting for 5:00. . With the partscaster, if you hire it out…. You have one guy running in screws, watching the clock waiting for 5:00.

My point… once the “stuff” is screwed together, it is ONLY a bunch of stuff screwed together… the fact that it looks like a musical instrument by no means dictates that it IS one…. That transition happens in the next phase…. The setup….

It is during the setup where a skilled (we hope) technician aligns everything correctly and makes the final adjustments to get it into a playable condition. This requires a higher understanding than knowing if you turn a screw clockwise it goes in, counter, and it comes out.

However… Today the proliferation of parts and the advertising promoting them can be confusing. You CANNOT just simply buy YOUR interpretation of the “best” of the parts available and think the resulting guitar will be superior to all others…it doesn’t work that way…

The components all make a contribution; they must be selected to compliment each other, by moving the sonic attributes of the guitar in a specific direction, within the parameters of the design chosen.

Further complicating the issue, is the addition of useless shi*, active, crap, and bazaar junk with no real history to make any determination as to what results to expect. Or… translation. . . . Just because Megga Wammy, Wonder Pickups and Quantum Physics Nuclear Tremolos say their units incorporate “new” technology delivering the finest sound ever… doesn’t mean for an instant that such a statement is true…. Consider…. Who exactly is making that determination about the finest sound… would it be the guy that is hoping to sell a million bux worth of the things? Or, worse, some Magazine writer that is prompted by his editor to “cozy-up” to some manufacturer that is considering a huge advertising buy.

So, if you buy superb parts and have it assembled by a mediocre tech, you wind up with a disappointment, one that can be corrected by someone that knows what he’s doing.

Ron Kirn

[Starbuck12]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

The origin of the parts is meaningless…

All . . . and to the Masterbuilt CS aficionados, I mean all . . .production bodies and necks are made on computer controlled shapers.

The only specifications that mean anything would be, are the frets correctly spaced and is the bridge location correct, everything else is subjective…. , you like the shape of the neck or you don’t, the same is true of the body. You may safely conclude that all CNC machines are cutting the fret slots in the correct places. If the body is being shaped by a CNC in Washington State, Corona California or Ensenada Mexico really doesn’t mean a darn thing.. the wood doesn’t know where it was shaped and the CNC machines are all made by the same few companies. The 3 phase 240 VAC is the same also.

There are for the most part only two types of truss rods available… one allows movement in 2 directions, the other is more vintage in design. Both are made of mild steel, thus “quality” doesn’t mean much. The Gotoh side adjust gizmo on the Warmoth pro necks it a piece of Cack. Most ruin it the first time you “screw” with it.

Therefore… it’s the assembly that makes or breaks the guitar/partscaster… With the American Standard, you have a “team” of line workers running in screws, watching the clock waiting for 5:00. . With the partscaster, if you hire it out…. You have one guy running in screws, watching the clock waiting for 5:00.

My point… once the “stuff” is screwed together, it is ONLY a bunch of stuff screwed together… the fact that it looks like a musical instrument by no means dictates that it IS one…. That transition happens in the next phase…. The setup….

It is during the setup where a skilled (we hope) technician aligns everything correctly and makes the final adjustments to get it into a playable condition. This requires a higher understanding than knowing if you turn a screw clockwise it goes in, counter, and it comes out.

However… Today the proliferation of parts and the advertising promoting them can be confusing. You CANNOT just simply buy YOUR interpretation of the “best” of the parts available and think the resulting guitar will be superior to all others…it doesn’t work that way…

The components all make a contribution; they must be selected to compliment each other, by moving the sonic attributes of the guitar in a specific direction, within the parameters of the design chosen.

Further complicating the issue, is the addition of useless shi*, active, crap, and bazaar junk with no real history to make any determination as to what results to expect. Or… translation. . . . Just because Megga Wammy, Wonder Pickups and Quantum Physics Nuclear Tremolos say their units incorporate “new” technology delivering the finest sound ever… doesn’t mean for an instant that such a statement is true…. Consider…. Who exactly is making that determination about the finest sound… would it be the guy that is hoping to sell a million bux worth of the things? Or, worse, some Magazine writer that is prompted by his editor to “cozy-up” to some manufacturer that is considering a huge advertising buy.

So, if you buy superb parts and have it assembled by a mediocre tech, you wind up with a disappointment, one that can be corrected by someone that knows what he’s doing.

Ron Kirn

That was a really helpful post Ron, I really appreciate it .

[JRSIV]

To me the Partscaster issue is analogous to the Squier Classic Vibe phenom we've seen over the last few years.

The boards exploded with praise of the CV's and most were skeptical but interested. Of those who went out and played one and dug it, and were lucky to find a prime example of one, quickly bought it and reported back to the boards with the same hyperbole. Those who played a lemon or those who just can't get past the "Squier" label, shat on them.

The Partscasters are similar. Mostly good reviews and tantalizing pics by owners who swear they're great are all over the boards, leaving many interested. When the curious go get quality parts and are capable in assembling them and setting them up right themselves or with help of a tech, they usually report back with praise and excitement over their new Partscaster. Those who assembled a guitar with mismatched, inferior parts, have Partscasters that were set up wrong by themselves or a tech, or are players who just can't get past the "Partscaster" label enough to try one, shat on them.

Like most of these things, if it works for you and you love your guitar, god bless. If it didn't work out, sad to hear it, back to the drawing board.