How bad are the CBS Strats

bobmac · June 22nd, 2008, 02:07 AM

Everytime I read a story about Strats (and Fender guitars in general) the story always brushes aside the CBS years as a dark period in the history of guitars. Were the Strats and other Fenders made in this period really bad guitars? What was the problem? And how can you identify a CBS guitar. There must be many of them around so do they have any value?

worldoftone · June 22nd, 2008, 02:24 AM

Quote:

And how can you identify a CBS guitar. There must be many of them around so do they have any value?

Large headstock (after '65 - '65 had the transition logo), and from mid-'71 and later the 3-bolt neck. I have a '66, '69, 74, two '75s a '79, '80 and '81. My '66 is a KILLER axe. That was early in the CBS reign.

Poly finishes (After mid '68 or so), increased weight and the 3-Bolt tilt-neck is what people talk about when bashing CBS instruments. I grew up playing 3-bolt necks. Some are worse than others for shifting around, but all of mine are decent tonally. They have a total different vibe than those before or since. My Olympic White '75 is balls out the best '70s Strat I have ever played. But, they are what they are. Some don't like them, some do.

- WOT

Strat-Talk · June 22nd, 2008, 11:16 AM

Even though CBS bought Fender in 1965 things didn't change overnight. After CBS bought Fender they started making real changes to the guitars, the quality and the finishes starting in mid-68. I'd say up through '71 folks are pretty much agreed on Strats still being nearly as good as pre-CBS. It's in '72 when the 3 bolt neck came out that people started objecting to the changes.

Like any guitar it's really on a case by case basis, there are good ones and bad ones and you just have to be careful.

I owned a '79 Hardtail that was a delightful guitar. But I've played other that were pure junk.

And the prices on all of the CBS Strats are going up all the time. And anything pre-1970... in other words any Strat made in the '60s decade are climbing steadily into some big money -- CBS or not.

StratDen · June 22nd, 2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strat-Talk

Even though CBS bought Fender in 1965 things didn't change overnight. After CBS bought Fender they started making real changes to the guitars, the quality and the finishes starting in mid-68. I'd say up through '71 folks are pretty much agreed on Strats still being nearly as good as pre-CBS.........

The poly was a big factor for many. Even on the CS '69s which are indeed period correct, the Poly keeps me away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strat-Talk

Like any guitar it's really on a case by case basis, there are good ones and bad ones and you just have to be careful....

Very, very true. A haphazard owner could have take an otherwise fine guitar and made it otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strat-Talk

And the prices on all of the CBS Strats are going up all the time. And anything pre-1970... in other words any Strat made in the '60s decade are climbing steadily into some big money -- CBS or not.

I'm still looking for a '65 or '66 that does it for me, but may have to settle for a CS for what I want.

Guitar Whiskey · June 22nd, 2008, 01:10 PM

All said previously is true; but Hendrix and Blackmore played CBS Strats. No one I know ever complained about the sound of their instruments.

StratDen · June 22nd, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Whiskey

All said previously is true; but Hendrix and Blackmore played CBS Strats. No one I know ever complained about the sound of their instruments.

Agree, most people probably don't have an issue with the sound (myself included), but more of the feel and the departure from what seemingly was already an accepted design.

Strat-Talk · June 22nd, 2008, 05:49 PM

I have a '69 Tele that was obviously a CBS Telecaster and it was finished in Poly. It's a great sounding and great playing guitar AND it is a great example of how Poly "relics"

Back in '69 the nitro vs. poly debate did not exist. Yes, it's a big deal now, but believe me it wasn't back in the day.

I prefer to have a nitro finish but I wouldn't turn down any pre-1970 Strat just because it was poly.

I think the 3-bolt neck is the biggest turn-off. And, I had one and it was fine. Plus, look at all the G&L's with 3-bolt necks and they too are fine.

StratDen · June 22nd, 2008, 08:06 PM

Good point about the G&L's. I've never disliked 3-screw necks. I always felt body wood was more of an important consideration.

Phat-O-Caster · June 22nd, 2008, 08:44 PM

Much like the AMF years at Harley Davidson (1969-1981) or pre '64 Winchester rifles the pre CBS instruments will always hold a higher value-do they play/ride/shoot as good? some do not & some do even better- can't make any broad generalizations, just have to evaluate each individual piece and see if it's got mojo.

StratDen · June 22nd, 2008, 08:52 PM

A '77 XLCR Cafe racer is a collectible from the AMF years, so anything is possible I guess...

jmasin · June 23rd, 2008, 02:20 PM

I've read some of the nitro vs. poly debate on the web but can't understand the big deal honestly. If you ask me there are a select few who could pick out the difference... this is one of those differences that begins in the mind and is validated when someone plays the guitar (as if there was another possible outcome). That's IF you could get the same EXACT guitar with nitro vs. poly which is impossible to do since each guitar/chunk of wood is a bit different anyway.

Not trying to start a flame war, again, just my opinion.

Orlando Mike · June 23rd, 2008, 04:59 PM

how bad? better than mine prolly

StratDen · June 23rd, 2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmasin

I've read some of the nitro vs. poly debate on the web but can't understand the big deal honestly. If you ask me there are a select few who could pick out the difference... this is one of those differences that begins in the mind and is validated when someone plays the guitar (as if there was another possible outcome). That's IF you could get the same EXACT guitar with nitro vs. poly which is impossible to do since each guitar/chunk of wood is a bit different anyway.

Not trying to start a flame war, again, just my opinion.

I think it's preference of the feel. I'd take a Nitro over Poly every time in that regard.

worldoftone · June 24th, 2008, 01:51 AM

I'm more concerned about getting through the gig and making sure things run smoothly than guitar finishes. I can play just about anything and make it sound decent, as long as I have a decent amp.

- WOT

StratDen · June 24th, 2008, 07:22 AM

That goes to show some people are just less discerning than others in terms of details and preference. For years I jammed with a guy who played with the frets nearly popping off the neck. Maybe I'm just too picky...

jmasin · June 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM

Hey! I'm not THAT bad

Cheers.

BOD2 · June 24th, 2008, 10:50 AM

How bad ? They seem to vary a lot.

I bought my first Strat about 1978. White, RW neck, black scratchplate, hardtail. I couldn't get the action sorted out - always buzzing at the bottom of the neck. Took it to a repairman who told me the neck was twisted. So it went back to the shop to be swapped for a tobacco sunburst one. That was nice. I wish I'd kept that one now.

They can be a bit heavy and the body contouring is often primitive, but sometimes you'll find a good one where everything seems to come together.

Guitar Whiskey · June 24th, 2008, 12:56 PM

I had a '73 maple neck Strat that was one of the best I've ever played. Yep it was a poly finish but still sounded great and I love the neck shape. A poly finish does not look pretty as it ages and I agree nitro always looks and feels better. Bottom line is there are some great CBS guitars out there and some real dogs.

too-many-strats · June 29th, 2008, 10:13 PM

If you saw a Porshe Turbo Carrera with a primer door would it offend you???? A Strat is a Strat. Doesn't matter if it's hand made by Leo, a CBS-era, or employee buyout model. There are good & not so good models in all those Fender Strats.

Boris Bubbanov · June 29th, 2008, 11:43 PM

A lot of those mid 70's and on ash ones are really heavy.

However, some of those sound real good. Actually, I think the watchword should be consistency; later era Fenders generally have fewer and fewer turkeys.

Look, you got people paying $ 60,000 for immaculate restored 1959 Fords. I remember those cars, they stunk. So much of this is out of control subjective.

thaus · July 1st, 2008, 01:40 AM

Like everything, I am sure there are good and bad instruments from this era. I've only had the chance to play a 1976 Telecaster and it wasn't too great.....may have been the set-up but I didn't like the feel of the neck and it was heavy!!

rickalexander · July 13th, 2008, 02:52 AM

I bought this 74 brand new. It was olympic white then, but a million cigarets in a thousand bars turned it the lovely shade of rats teeth orange you see before you.
It's a great guitar, it has had one or 2 minor mods - like a mini switch for the bridge pickup allowing every possible pickup combination, and new tuners.
It's no 56, but it plays like butter and sounds killer. If I had a dollar for every song I've played on it while people sat there drunk I could buy a 56!
You know you're getting on when a guitar you bought new has been "vintage" for 10 years or more . .

I paid $700 for it - Vintage Guitar Price Guide says it's worth over $5K now. I'd never sell it for any price.
I bought it to play in bars - now I'm hesitant to play it out, so what the hell . .

Fenderon · July 13th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Welcome to Start-Talk Rick. One of my favorite guitar players, Walter Trout has a guitar story similar to yours.

aznrambo481 · July 21st, 2008, 03:51 PM

I've played several CBS strats... and I have liked them all. The neck on one of them had a very odd profile (don't konw enough about shapes to categorize it), but they were fine instruments IMO.

too-many-strats · July 22nd, 2008, 09:23 AM

As I said in my earlier post. A Strat is a Strat is a Strat. You need to buy 1 & see for yourself. I own a '75, a '77, two '79's, an '80, and an '83 all CBS era. No complaints. Just damn glad to own/play them.

gaddis · July 27th, 2008, 11:12 PM

My first strat was a CBS strat - a 1980 model. I used this guitar for many years. It was a great player and the bridge pickup was hot, hot, hot. I still have this guitar but play it infrequently since getting my '62 RI. The RI is just a much sexier guitar. I love the feel of the neck and fingerboard. It gives me a real vintage vibe which makes me want to play it more. But that 1980 was a workhorse for me and that bridge pickup allowed me to do things that I can't do with the '62.

thaus · July 28th, 2008, 10:06 AM

Just played a friends new purchase, a 1979 hardtail Stratocaster and it was a very nice playing guitar but way over-priced IMO! He paid some ridiculous price (it's his birth year). I told him he could have bought a CS Masterbuilt guitar for that kind of money but he digs his guitar so that's what counts!

Tremblock · August 3rd, 2008, 05:06 PM

Got my '66 brand new back in the day. May it rest in peace, it was fabulous. I played it till it just about disappeared. Traded it for a '66 Jag. Now that I'm into rebuilding and repairing, I wish I had it back. I'd trade a truckload of Jags to see it again.

guitar1580 · August 5th, 2008, 01:29 AM

To me, the key is finding the lighter weight bodies, more common in earlier CBS models. My '71 Tele, and '75 Strat hardtail are both awesome, and have the true classic Fender sound....of course, I converted the 3 bolt neck to 4 on the Strat. Some heavier bodied late 70's Strats I played sounded like crap, nothing like a Fender. The heavier wood is more dense, and doesnt resonate as well. Leo Fender's specs would have rejected the heavy weight bodies........also, I dipped my Tele pickups in wax, another of Leo's tricks not continued by CBS, eliminated my feedback problem......JP