American Stock Pickups Vs. Custom Shops

[Shades of Blue]

Ok,

Thanks to all for their opinions about what pickups to replace my ceramic MIM standards with. I am looking at the custom shop 69s, but have come across a great deal on American Standard Alnico Vs.

Does anyone have experience with the American Standard pickups? Are they better sounding than the MIM standards?

Thanks,
JB

[thaus]

I have a VG strat which has stock American alnico's installed (at least I think that is what they are!). They sound very good IMO. Some noise but nothing that's not standard with single-coils. Hard to say if they are better than MIM since I don't have any of those installed in any strat I own!

[softmonkey]

I love the hell out of the pickups that came on my new Am. Std. I was thinking of switching out the bridge but decided to keep it as is.

[Strat-Talk]

Yes, the Am Stds are better than the MIMs. Make sure it is a good deal though. Because if you're going to buy the pickups and install them then be sure that you're saving a ton over buying some CS p'ups and installing them. Because as good as the Am Std p'ups are, the CS p'ups are that much better.

[softmonkey]

What kind are on the Eric Johnsons?

[Orlando Mike]

Originally Posted by Strat-Talk

Yes, the Am Stds are better than the MIMs. Make sure it is a good deal though. Because if you're going to buy the pickups and install them then be sure that you're saving a ton over buying some CS p'ups and installing them. Because as good as the Am Std p'ups are, the CS p'ups are that much better.

amen, and they really arent that much more money in a lot of cases....a lot of talk here about average pickups, and no mention of the importance of capacitor types and values...all my strats get .22 or .33 mojotone oil paper caps...they are under 5 dollars and I'm convinced I can tell the difference...my teles, without exception get .47's

[doverow]

Most definitely as Mike says: in fact, I once spent an unfeasibly large amount over a few months searching for the "right" pups, only learning later that the caps/resistors I had were the things that were getting it all too tinny!

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by doverow

Most definitely as Mike says: in fact, I once spent an unfeasibly large amount over a few months searching for the "right" pups, only learning later that the caps/resistors I had were the things that were getting it all too tinny!

Funny you should mention "tinny". That is my main problem with my MIM stock pickups. Do you know what kind of caps and resistors the MIM has and how much would it cost to get news ones put in?

[thaus]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Funny you should mention "tinny". That is my main problem with my MIM stock pickups. Do you know what kind of caps and resistors the MIM has and how much would it cost to get news ones put in?

Try modding out the tone knobs and switches. It will cost you about $25 dollars in parts but may make your tone better because of the better quality pots. A lot of MIM use cheaper electronics like the Indonesian stuff (mini-pots) which are noisy and harsh.

[doverow]

Shades: I don't but thaus here and many others are veritable cornucopias of knowledge on all that. The pots/switch upgrade will be well worth it...BUT:
...I've just had a quick thought: I remember MIM pups being not too bad...
I'm just wondering if you've got the easily curable disease of stratitis: pickups too close to strings??
(Sorry, worth a flag I thought....I'm not making offensive assumptions!)

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by doverow

Shades: I don't but thaus here and many others are veritable cornucopias of knowledge on all that. The pots/switch upgrade will be well worth it...BUT:
...I've just had a quick thought: I remember MIM pups being not too bad...
I'm just wondering if you've got the easily curable disease of stratitis: pickups too close to strings??
(Sorry, worth a flag I thought....I'm not making offensive assumptions!)

Well, that's a great point, I have lowered them, raised them, put them at different angles, but this guitar just sounds way to mellow for me. How low do you recommend? It doesn't have that classic strat bell-tone sound. It sounds smooth, but doesn't have any snap to it. It is no where near how bright I would like it, but yet it is tinny and thin sounding.

I play through a Peavey Bandit 112 with transtube technology. Love the amp.

Simply put, my strat with Tex Mex pickups sounds more like a strat to me than my MIM standard, but I hate the sound of Tex Mexs lol!

I am just trying to get a good strat sound and haven't been able to do it with the stock MIM pickups. I actually have won a set of 2008 American Standard pickups from Ebay for a great price. From what I can hear on YouTube, the american strat nails the sound I am after.

[jmasin]

Disclaimer, below is all my opinion only, no offense intended if it doesn't match others -

If the guitar sounds too mellow it's probably just the output of the pups. Adjusting distance has an effect but you can only go so far before you start causing some issues (although according to Erlewine's book SRV had them at the same level as the frets!).

What size strings do you play with? Smaller = tinnier. I started with 13's long ago because I was a diehard SRV wannabe... went to 12's because 13's is just dumb, and have played 9's on someone else's guitar since and the strings were gutless. You want punch? Bigger strings do help. Of course ignore this if you are already playing solid strings. And there are certainly guitars strung with 9's that sound awesome so no one flame me

My opinion on the electronics - basically they are all going to be similar in their response for the fundamental frequencies (like 440 for an A). What CAN vary is how these components affect the instrument's timbre by changing the harmonic or overtone response. In this way they can make a difference. I would personally say it is not so much a question of "quality" components (aside from scratchy pots), but those which give you the timbre you are looking for. For example old oil/paper caps may have slightly different characteristics and so affect the harmonics differently than a ceramic. People may be able to sense the difference and inevitably point to the old type as the "quality", but it is more just a question of the vintage timbre they are looking for (partially because the vintage stuff is what is recognized as the good sound).

The downside is the older technology stuff is sometimes of lower quality in the standard sense, and so can vary significantly sample to sample. This is part of the mojo, but can be frustrating (I'm building a fuzzbox and measured 10 PNP transistors and gain ranged from 102 to 230!!!!!!).

And then some days I believe it's all in our heads Seriously, one day I'm on and I feel like I've got the tone I want. I come back the next day and it feels as if someone has fiddled with every knob on the guitar, amp and pedal just to screw with me... sometimes you can't chase it, you have to let it come to you

Cheers! and again, just my opinions.

Jon

[Orlando Mike]

Originally Posted by jmasin

Disclaimer, below is all my opinion only, no offense intended if it doesn't match others -

If the guitar sounds too mellow it's probably just the output of the pups. Adjusting distance has an effect but you can only go so far before you start causing some issues (although according to Erlewine's book SRV had them at the same level as the frets!).

What size strings do you play with? Smaller = tinnier. I started with 13's long ago because I was a diehard SRV wannabe... went to 12's because 13's is just dumb, and have played 9's on someone else's guitar since and the strings were gutless. You want punch? Bigger strings do help. Of course ignore this if you are already playing solid strings. And there are certainly guitars strung with 9's that sound awesome so no one flame me

My opinion on the electronics - basically they are all going to be similar in their response for the fundamental frequencies (like 440 for an A). What CAN vary is how these components affect the instrument's timbre by changing the harmonic or overtone response. In this way they can make a difference. I would personally say it is not so much a question of "quality" components (aside from scratchy pots), but those which give you the timbre you are looking for. For example old oil/paper caps may have slightly different characteristics and so affect the harmonics differently than a ceramic. People may be able to sense the difference and inevitably point to the old type as the "quality", but it is more just a question of the vintage timbre they are looking for (partially because the vintage stuff is what is recognized as the good sound).

The downside is the older technology stuff is sometimes of lower quality in the standard sense, and so can vary significantly sample to sample. This is part of the mojo, but can be frustrating (I'm building a fuzzbox and measured 10 PNP transistors and gain ranged from 102 to 230!!!!!!).

And then some days I believe it's all in our heads Seriously, one day I'm on and I feel like I've got the tone I want. I come back the next day and it feels as if someone has fiddled with every knob on the guitar, amp and pedal just to screw with me... sometimes you can't chase it, you have to let it come to you

Cheers! and again, just my opinions.

Jon

excellent post! esp. about the vintage vibe...I am soooo guilty of referring to that as "good" when it's so obviously subjective...+ 10 on a great post

[softmonkey]

Yes, that was well put together and insightful.

I normally have issues with the bridge pickups on Strats, even with my early 80s '62 Reissue. But on my new Am. Std. I am loving the bridge pickup, never want to back off with the tone or volume knob. I recently played an Eric Johnson and the pickups on it seemed more bombastic, but I don't know if that's a good thing. I performed two shows with it out of town (it was lent to me for the weekend along with a rewired Pro Reverb amp) and the bridge pickup was almost prohibitive-- too trebly and thin, but powerful as in piercing. The music was very open-ended at times, lots of jamming, so there was a lot of opportunity to dial the guitar in and, honestly, I'd have preferred my American Standard. At least for the bridge pickup.

On the other hand, as good as my Am. Std. sounds, I start to get greedy and wonder just how good it would sound with some custom pickups. Anyway, I kind of have a theory about custom guitars and parts, i.e., the guitars that, say, Clapton or Beck or EJ were playing when they made their names were probably a lot closer to a new Am. Std. off the rack-- maybe with a modification here and there-- than their own custom guitars. There might be some organic consistency re: Fender's "normal" factory process than there would be at the custom shop. But I could be wrong.

[doverow]

Nice one Jon.
Shades, sounds as if you've given them every chance...well done with the "proper" ones...let us know the results!

[xfsl0001]

Softmonkey, I totally agree with your opinion about the custom guitars. I think it is better to get an Am standard and spend the price difference exactly where you want.
Regarding the bridge pickup, have you ever tried to install a base plate in the pickup? It used to be done in the old strats as far as I have been told, and it normally provides a bit more bass in the bridge PU. Recently I was interested in Fralin pickups and they normally sell them with the baseplate included.

[softmonkey]

I always wonder if the baseplate will make it sound too much like a Tele. Duncan's Twangbanger comes with a baseplate, I think, and that's the idea there. I'm thinking a hotter pickup, i.e., with more output, could be preferable. Since I got this Keely boost pedal last week I've had to completely reevaluate a lot of these concepts though, as the fullness it adds to the bridge pu is exquisite.

[xfsl0001]

I found some sound clips to check that: http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/Strat...d_Clips_W1.cfm.
I am really interested in the Fralin Blues Special PU, will buy them in short.

Here is where I found that the baseplate really adds something, a bit more body to the bridge PU. Of course it depends on the music you play, I'm rather in blues jazz (clean sound "mode").