Improvisation (rhythm/timing stuff)

timegoesback · November 17th, 2009, 12:47 PM

I find it extremely difficult to improvise over a backing tracking with any sort of rhythm. I just can't seem to time my phrasing right and when I do without just playing 4th/8th notes (?) on each beat...

How do I practice?

PhillipF · November 18th, 2009, 02:43 PM

metronome

stratagem · November 18th, 2009, 03:19 PM

Try to play the chord as a single note and just pluck E E E E, A A A A, E E E E... and so on.

Once you're fingers get the rhythm you'll be able to improvise away from the root notes. In other words, use the backing track as a metronome and get a feel for the beat.

hendrixfan · November 19th, 2009, 12:28 PM

yep as suggested use a metronome,i use an online one it has different drum beats etc,and i find playing along with a backing track whist using the metronome really helps with my timing.

also just practising scales and chords with a metronome will really help you to start to get a natural sense of time and help you play more accurately

timegoesback · November 19th, 2009, 01:55 PM

Even with the metronome it's hard, I actually find that it throws me off when learning songs (or am not supposed to concentrate on it?). I can only use a metronome to practise going up and down chromatically playing quarter notes haha

Axis29 · November 20th, 2009, 04:55 PM

It sounds like you just need to practice more. Some people have to work harder at timing than others.

How is your timing when playing with other people?

Pickguard · November 20th, 2009, 06:59 PM

You want to pay attention to the metronome without becoming tense. Play scales, etc., so that when the notes fall on the beat/click you cannot hear the metronome. No matter what you are playing you should aim to make the sound of the metronome disappear. At first you might succeed every fourth beat, for example, and not hear the click. I know a pro player who only hears the click about once every 8 clicks. There are other players who have developed such good timing that they never hear the click. Good luck.

Offshore Angler · November 21st, 2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timegoesback

Even with the metronome it's hard, I actually find that it throws me off when learning songs (or am not supposed to concentrate on it?). I can only use a metronome to practise going up and down chromatically playing quarter notes haha

Absolutely use a metronome if you are having trouble. Think in terms of wholes, halfs, quarters, eighths, sixteenths and 32nds.

It is imperative you lock them down before you attemp syncopation.

Music is much more rhythm than melody. Being able to quickly find the pocket and jump into and not onto the groove is what will get you gigs, not how many notes you can play.

"Mississippi" is the key to good sixteenths. Remember that 90bpm, 110bpm and 140 bpm will cover 90% of the songs you play. You should be able to play those in four in your sleep.

And another thing, when playing blues, it's common to have six or twelve beats over eight. Nothing is funnier than a "blues player" who counts off Stormy Monday "One, two, three, four..." LOL! That one always cracks the band up.

Oh, and when all else fails, lock yourself away with some Little Feat and absorb. Notice how even the drummer is intentionally off the beat and it's the congas holding the band down.

timegoesback · December 1st, 2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axis29

It sounds like you just need to practice more. Some people have to work harder at timing than others.

How is your timing when playing with other people?

No idea, haven't played with anyone in over a year, and we never jammed over improvisations or anything.

@Pickguard: Yeah, that throws me off after a bit...guess it's just practice then

@Offshore Angler: Agreed!

amstratnut · December 17th, 2009, 07:45 PM

Most important thing I learned besides everything is that there are strong beats the 1 and the 3. And there are weak beats the 2 and 4. Forget the 2 and 4 at first. I know rock and roll is based on the back beat but it doesn't help at first with being in the right place at the right time. Play a chord tone on the strong beats and your lines will start to take shape. do it slowly depending on your playing level. If you're a beginner then play only 2 notes per measure: one on the 1 and another on the 3. the more you do it the more you can mess with where you put strong notes. This also really helps you learn the guitar neck. Yes there are a lot of exceptions but this is basic musicianship and it will givve you the basis for much better playing. As far as rhythm goes don't practice too fast. Just play whatever you can do cleanly without losing your place. You get faster naturally. It won't sound great at first but it does get better.

My point is that you sound better rhythically if you're in the right place at the right time (strong beats). its better to work up to it slow and fill in the gaps and get funkier when you have a feel for where the tune is going.

And yeah little feat is great but jeeze they're kind of advanced.

I once attended a clinic with Mike Stern. He said that even now when learning songs he just plays 7th arppeggios on quarter beats.

One thing you might try when you master the above is a short repetetive rhythmic motif on one note (change notes to fit chord going by) emphasizing the strong beats. Slowly expand the idea to include more notes. Lots of guys use little snippets or shapes of music and repeat it in dfferent areas depending on the chord you're on.

Hope any of this helps.