Highway one body vs American standard body

[kungfumailman]

Is there any difference in the highway one alder strat body and the American standard alder body? Thanks Kungfumailman

[BOD2]

Highway one body is finished in a thin stain nitro cellulose finish with a slight sheen that will wear easily and quickly. American standard is a hard wearing urethane finish.

Don't buy the Highway one if you like your guitars to stay "showroom shiny" as it will wear down quickly.

[tonyw]

I have a H1 body on my partscaster it has now been on 12months never been in a case except for transport, has been gigged but never cleaned except for the neck towled off after a show and its played every day. The body after 12 months is doing exactly what i want it to do and thats age nicely. You can give Nitro a sheen with a bit of Meguiars Gold Class car polish if you like, mine has a nice sheen where my elbow rubs. I will clean all the crud off it next time i string up and will post some picks what nitro can be like after 12months.

Under the nitro Fender use Fullerplast so its not as if there's nothing under it like pre 63, so they arnt a true nitro finish as Fullerplast is a plastic coat that solved fenders problems for a quik drying guitar finish. All the nitro is better than poly on Fender guitars for tone is rubbish as they are wrapped in plastic so to speak before the nitro is shot.

Tonally i have nothing but praise for the alder H1 on my guitar.

[kurdt]

2 point trem on the am standard vs 6 screw trem on the hwy 1... HSH route on am standard vs HSS route on the hwy 1

[Boris Bubbanov]

Originally Posted by kungfumailman

Is there any difference in the highway one alder strat body and the American standard alder body? Thanks Kungfumailman

Yes, yes.

There are as many differences between these two bodies as there are similarities.

Anything in particular you were interested in? Routing, bridge mounting, presence or lack of a Micro-Tilt? Finish type? Shielding? Colors?

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by BOD2

Highway one body is finished in a thin stain nitro cellulose finish with a slight sheen that will wear easily and quickly. American standard is a hard wearing urethane finish.

The finish on a HWY1 is not nitro, it is acrylic laquer made by Sherwin Williams.

There is poly below the laquer. The thin-skin models don't have the poly undercoat.

[tonyw]

HW1 body is Nitro with a poly undercoat

lets see what Fender say it is "The thin nitrocellulose lacquer finish lets the body wood's natural tone shine through" ok is this false advertising?

Theres a saying
"Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn't 'breathe' at 120 db."

Totally agree

[Offshore Angler]

Here are the facts:

Guitar finishes that strike a chord w...llBusiness.com

Page 2 gets into the specifics of the paint used.

It is Sher-Wood CAB acrylic laquer.

"In addition to paying attention to the preferences of superstar musicians, McDonald is also mindful of what the younger, local talent wants from their guitars. "We noticed that kids were taking their brand new shiny guitars and intentionally marking them up with steel wool to make their instruments look worn," Mr. McDonald said. "For this customer, shiny, new looking instruments are definitely not cool.

As a response, FMIC set out to offer a guitar with a satin finish that would appeal to the younger musician. Offering this type of finish would also help bring the price down, since less workmanship is required in the final steps of painting and polishing. (Retail prices for Fender guitars can start as high as $1,200. The satin finished models are typically priced around $900.)

However, one of the problems often related to low-gloss finishes is the visible fingerprints left behind. Fender contacted several paint manufacturers about the issue and selected a coating from The Sherwin-Williams Company for the job. Sher-Wood[R] CAB-Acrylic Lacquer in a low-sheen satin offers just the right amount of luster to obscure fingerprints. It is also HAPS-compliant, resistant to moisture and yellowing and dries fast. Mr. McDonald selected dark velvety tones like burgundy, midnight blue and purple to appeal to the young audience.

For other color picks, Mr. McDonald took a cue from the popular three-tone sunburst pattern (featuring red and gold tones) introduced in the '50s, updating the look with silver and sapphire. Mr. McDonald also refers to colors like black, red and medium blue as "standards" that stay popular year after year.

Similar to automakers, Fender also plays to the niche markets by producing some guitar models in graffiti yellow and orange, or even a candy tangerine. "There's always a small crowd that wants that off-the-wall color that makes you look twice" said Mr. McDonald. "It's a lot like the occasional bright yellow Ford Mustang you see cruising the highway."

For Fender's specialty line of vintage guitars called "Highway 1", Sher-Wood CAB-acrylic lacquer in a high-gloss finish is used to capture the same look and feel of guitars manufactured in the 1940s and 1950s. "We have a large number of customers who are particularly nostalgic about this period in our line," said Al Guzman, Fender senior vice president at the Corona, California manufacturing site. "*

* from All Business, A D&B Company




Fender screwed the pooch in the marketing department. It's pretty well known they are not nitro - nitro does not make a satin finish since it "remelts" any undercoats when applied.

If you read that article in its entirety, they go into specific detail about the priming process as well, and the finishes on the standard models too.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by tonyw

HW1 body is Nitro with a poly undercoat

lets see what Fender say it is "The thin nitrocellulose lacquer finish lets the body wood's natural tone shine through" ok is this false advertising?

Theres a saying
"Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn't 'breathe' at 120 db."

Totally agree

OK, but I think 120 dB might be excessive! That's louder than a jet at takeoff!

[ActionFletch]

What are the pros and cons of this Hwy1 finish?

I love my Hwy1 for look feel and sound, really i do, and i have a 2007 Am Std to compare it to. Obviously Fender would have made the Hwy as affordable (read - cheap) as possible, so i`m interested in hearing about the `cons` of its finish - even though i can`t "hear" any!

[Offshore Angler]

The only difference is the looks. When they came out a lot of people were bragging about how the sound was superior due to the "nitro" finish - then the facts surfaced that it was acrylic over poly. So it was obviously the placebo effect at work. That pretty well killed the finsih affects the tone argument. I have guitars that have been refinsihed and sound exactly like they did before the finish was changed.

On an acoustic instrument like a guitar, violin or piano, where the soundboard vibrates to produce the sound, the finish does affect the timbre and volume of the instrument. On a solidbody electric different physics are involved and the finish really doesn't matter. Each peice of wood is unique and will have its own sound.

Somebody will reply "blah blah blah let the wood breath" but after building and refinishing over the last 30 years, I've not found a difference. I even have my "goldtop" Strat that had the body and neck painted with 3 coats of bullion and 20 coats of clear - and it sounds the same today as it did when it was being played with the finish stripped in the 80's.

With the HWY1's being specifically marketed to younger players, the bodies tend to be made up of more peices than USA. I've seen some HW1's that were three piece bodies with no veneer in a sunburst. Yeouch!

[ActionFletch]

Thanks for the reply and info!

My own gut feelings is 95% of tone/sound comes from pickups / amp / players own style????
I reckon the discussions around `wood` and finish sounds (not acoustic instruments) are very subjective.

[ActionFletch]

Just expounding on that above statement ^^^^

I read recently that LP purist argue about the bit of wood that juts down from the neck and joins the body and that it adds to the `tone`. But when you condsider that all electric guitars are just small electric generators and the sound we hear comes from a amplified speaker.... well you get my point????

Pickup > Amp..

[Offshore Angler]

Oh man, the LP guys are nuts! They'll even almost come to blows over the tonal differences between the long and short tenon designs. Just remember, the vast majority of people going on and on about their tone are crappy players at best, so consider the source. If you've never heard them play then beware.

The biggest differrence in sound on a Les Paul compared to a Fender is the LP's shorter scale, which makes it less (Les?) biting and less sparkly.

[tonyw]

Offshore well i read what you have found and it makes for an interesting argument and a lawsuit against Fender for false advertising , so who going to run with it? haha

yeah 120db's is just a tic statement but people try and tell you a guitar in full flights tone is affected by paint finish which is rubbish. Like me your an old schooler and what we used to play was what we grabbed off the shelf and just played the bloody thing. Before the net most of this BS was just that.

Timbers by themselfs with whatever finish you like only show a small difference acoustically unplugged when shown on a graph depicting sound of highs mids and lows, but once you plug in its a whole new world with the pickups being the heart and soul of your sound, then the strings then the hardware then the electrics then the timbers IMHO. Forget the voodoo and the mojo that people attatch to guitars. Every piece of wood has a different sound, every piece of wood has its own entity. I gave up on this is better and thats a better finish. I purchase by looks and then adjust accordingly.

My Highway1 body after 12 months is in worse condition wear wise than my mid 90's ASAT and the ASAT has had the nuts played out of it for over 15yrs. My next guitar will have a tru oil finish for 2 reasons 1: its an easy finish to apply and 2 they say the necks play superb. I got a satin nitro finish on my Warmoth neck on the strat because to me satin finishs play better than gloss and nothing to do with perceived sounds.

I love playing old pieces of junk that the music snobs turn their noses up at i can alway get a great sound out of these things even if its only one sweet spot.

Too much BS because of marketing in music, the pickup makers are probably some of the worst at it for false claims. I have heard some cheap pups knock the top liners off their perchs. I will start winding my own pups in the new year as i used to do in the 70's and 80's because i am sick of the overpriced rubbish some of the people have the gall to put out. Scatter widing vs machine widing for instance, alnico magnets etc (the magnets do change tone as does the wire and the windings and the amount of windings etc), old Leo used to wind with what he could get, Cobalt was hard to come by back then. Leo used the cheapest most available paints, timbers and Alnico he could find, not because this or that finish wise made the guitar a better player so some early strats may have had Alnico 2 magnets or Alnico 5 etc etc. There are some very good winders out there who make great pups but theres too much voodoo and BS associated with the industry.


Back to the timbers and finish, i like in no particular order
Swamp Ash
Alder
Mahogony heavier and a little warmer than the 2 above

the finish well you can shoot whatever you like on it as long as it loooks good

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by ActionFletch

Thanks for the reply and info!

My own gut feelings is 95% of tone/sound comes from pickups / amp / players own style????
I reckon the discussions around `wood` and finish sounds (not acoustic instruments) are very subjective.

I agree with that and 95% of the pickup tone is related to its height, that is to say distance from the strings.

BTW Fletch hows you hand injury mending?

[Boris Bubbanov]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Here are the facts:

Guitar finishes that strike a chord w...llBusiness.com

Thanks for this great cite!

But take a look - this article says that Gloss acrylic lacquer was used. We all know that is not correct, at least on the Highway Ones.

Anyway, the article is June, 2003. My understanding is, when they "Upgraded" the regular Highway One guitars 2 years later in mid 2005, they dumped this furniture lacquer because:

It did not hold up, and sloughed off the guitars in a very non vintage way;

FMIC was ready for some new colors, anyway; and

FMIC was getting savaged because they promised Nitro and had not (at first) delivered it.

BTW I think the Texas Tele Highway Ones never changed - those are still acrylic, I think.

+++

The whole thing is kinda crazy. What they called "nitro" in 1955 and the stuff marketed as "nitro" today are very very different. That's OK. "Milk" has changed and so has "Motor Oil"

[Offshore Angler]

You know, some guitars just tune better than others. Those are the ones to buy. Unfortunately, in this $10 electronic tuner world, too many newb and even some experienced players believe if you tune the strings open, the guitar is in tune. And so we get to hear out-of-tune blues wanking on a nightly basis in clubs now.

I think there should be license you need to be able to play out, and to get it you should be required to show that you actually know how to tune a guitar in tempered tuning and control that pesky unwound G string. That said - some guitars tune well and others don't. Why? Heck, I don't know. I think that's where the wood comes into play though.


About the article - what I also found cool was the fact that McDonald admitted the HWY1 guitars were aimed at kids. That explains the Death Metal frets and non-Strat sounding pickups - which I could never understand before. Now it makes sense.

[tonyw]

I was just going to say that the body finish on my guitar acts like nitro and i believe it is nitro after doing some more research myslef just now i discovered what Boris just stated. This body was new Aug 07. They also make a great partscaster body haha

[jgillard]

I think there should be license you need to be able to play out, and to get it you should be required to show that you actually know how to tune a guitar in tempered tuning and control that pesky unwound G string.

Wow. Did not realize that about tempered tuning. Read up on it. Re-tuned my guitars and it's so much better. It had always really aggravated me that I tune correct per a tuner. I play a chord and it sounded awful and I would end up fiddling to get it to sound right to me. Tuning it tempered everything sounds right! Great stuff. Everyone should know about this when they start out and that lousy method of tuning by ear with the 5th fret should be eliminated.

[ActionFletch]

Originally Posted by Bundini

I agree with that and 95% of the pickup tone is related to its height, that is to say distance from the strings.

BTW Fletch hows you hand injury mending?

Much better thanks mate. Xray tomorrow to check how its going. Foolishly i`ve been playing a little. No pain unless i stretch the pinky, the cast stops my palm reaching the neck too, but its all good.
Thanks for asking dude!!!!

[tonyw]

As my mate says is a Tuner some sort of fish?
I tune by ear on open strings and get the open A string 1st i respond to the A and can hear it clearly like its meant to be and hit it bang on every time, then i work the others open and with harmonics at 12, never had problem with it.

[Boris Bubbanov]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

You know, some guitars just tune better than others. Those are the ones to buy. Unfortunately, in this $10 electronic tuner world, too many newb and even some experienced players believe if you tune the strings open, the guitar is in tune. And so we get to hear out-of-tune blues wanking on a nightly basis in clubs now.

I've decided that the guys at the Big Box guitar stores play super fast, so you cannot really tell how far out of tune they are.

I think that half the guitars out there tune so badly, because there are so many cheap tuning keys put on these guitars. I end up in this strange position, where I continue to play a guitar I know I don't want. But you don't understand, it is staying in tune!!!

I just don't know. Used Gretsch CC, marked at $ 1,600. The thing is, it has acoustic (bronze roundwound, wound G) strings on it. How the are you supposed to evaluate that? Employees don't know that the pups can't recognize a bronze string?

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

You know, some guitars just tune better than others. Those are the ones to buy. Unfortunately, in this $10 electronic tuner world, too many newb and even some experienced players believe if you tune the strings open, the guitar is in tune. And so we get to hear out-of-tune blues wanking on a nightly basis in clubs now.

I think there should be license you need to be able to play out, and to get it you should be required to show that you actually know how to tune a guitar in tempered tuning and control that pesky unwound G string. That said - some guitars tune well and others don't. Why? Heck, I don't know. I think that's where the wood comes into play though.


About the article - what I also found cool was the fact that McDonald admitted the HWY1 guitars were aimed at kids. That explains the Death Metal frets and non-Strat sounding pickups - which I could never understand before. Now it makes sense.

Death metal frets? non-strat sounding pups? I love my HW1, I'm way older than you.... maybe because a still got death metal frags in me along with hearing loss.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Bundini

Death metal frets? non-strat sounding pups? I love my HW1, I'm way older than you.... maybe because a still got death metal frags in me along with hearing loss.

Well yo uhave to admit - although they are decent for for the price - they are te most un-Strat feeling and sounding Strats ever built. The pickups are nice if you want overdrive and crunchy chords, but between the oversize frets and hoter pickups I could never coax a real authentic Strat sound out of one. YMMV.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Boris Bubbanov

Thanks for this great cite!

But take a look - this article says that Gloss acrylic lacquer was used. We all know that is not correct, at least on the Highway Ones.

Anyway, the article is June, 2003. My understanding is, when they "Upgraded" the regular Highway One guitars 2 years later in mid 2005, they dumped this furniture lacquer because:

It did not hold up, and sloughed off the guitars in a very non vintage way;

FMIC was ready for some new colors, anyway; and

FMIC was getting savaged because they promised Nitro and had not (at first) delivered it.

BTW I think the Texas Tele Highway Ones never changed - those are still acrylic, I think.

+++

The whole thing is kinda crazy. What they called "nitro" in 1955 and the stuff marketed as "nitro" today are very very different. That's OK. "Milk" has changed and so has "Motor Oil"

I doubt they changed it. Fender goes back with Sherwin-Williams to about 1955. And the new facility I believe, is not equipped to spray nitro - spraying nitro in California and being HAPS compliant seems like it would almost be impossible. Add to that, the matte finishes which are the antithesis of a nitro job, not to mention the fingerprints issue. Plus, I've never run into a new HWY1 that SMELLED like nitro. Add to that, the cycle-time for a nitro finish is about 10 times longer than doing a acylic, it seems doubtful Fender would go to that expense on guitar intended for young players and costing less than standard offerings.

It's a stretch to believe that Fender would institute the infrastructure required to use nitro on it's budget line but not on its premier products. And besides, what they call nitro today is a different animal than the nitro of yore. Maybe they add some teency amount of nitrocellulose to the mix so they can claim it's nitro and still meet the HAPs standards.

If there are sources that say otherwise, I've never seen them.

[kungfumailman]

Are the USA bodies one piece alder and the HW1 bodies three piece?

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well yo uhave to admit - although they are decent for for the price - they are te most un-Strat feeling and sounding Strats ever built. The pickups are nice if you want overdrive and crunchy chords, but between the oversize frets and hoter pickups I could never coax a real authentic Strat sound out of one. YMMV.

I'll ignore your youthful brashness out of respect for your knowledge and experience.

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by Bundini

I'll ignore your youthful brashness out of respect for your knowledge and experience.

Well, they certainly don't play like a vintage axe, and those stock pups don't sound like traditional Strat pups, and Fender quite openly admits they are marketed towards younger players with different tastes than the more traditional Strat buyers, so where is the brashness?

[Bundini]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well, they certainly don't play like a vintage axe, and those stock pups don't sound like traditional Strat pups, and Fender quite openly admits they are marketed towards younger players with different tastes than the more traditional Strat buyers, so where is the brashness?

You kids today should show repect for your elders, even if you know more than they do. Used to be a tradition in this country.

[tonyw]

When i got my HW1 body 1 it had no sheen 2 it smelled like Nitro and 3 after a year its acting like Nitro crackinging up etc. I have looked everywhere for one hint that they arnt shooting nitro on these bodies and Angler as usual is the only one saying no they arnt and you dont had a HW1 body to compare.

KUNFUMAILMAN the bodies appear to be 3 piece

[Offshore Angler]

So, you think nitro cracks after 1 year? As far as a hint - I gave you a quote from the Top Dog at Fender. That's a pretty strong hint!

[AllroyPA]

Let's play nice gentlemen ....

[Offshore Angler]

Originally Posted by AllroyPA

Let's play nice gentlemen ....

Good advice.

All I'm saying is it strains credibility to assume that Fender is using nitro on their value guitars intended for younger buyers and hobbiests and poly on the flagship line marketed to for adults and working pros.

[AllroyPA]

It easy to get caught up in a debate. But the price points of the guitars should definitly be an indicater of where they all stand. In this economy it's hard to get thrown a bone, unless you're a dog in a car at the bank drive-through. LOL

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Good advice. All I'm saying is it strains credibility to assume that Fender is using nitro on their value guitars intended for younger buyers and hobbiests and poly on the flagship line marketed to for adults and working pros.

[Bundini]

The Highway One presents the teachable moment of true Bundini-ism:

Tradition and transition
death metal frets of the mind, death metal frags in the body
The truth of God, the deception of man
The truth my brothers, is to know where you stand.

[dacop]

I just purchased a HW1 about a month ago and absolutely love it. Highly recommended. I also love the finish, if it wears...great...so what! That will just add to the vintage look of them which is what caught my eye in the first place while in the store. Its a guitar, not a car, a little mileage wont hurt it. And I doubt anyone will hear a difference in the tone or sound with a worn body. If I blind folded you and took sand paper to any Strat body and had you play a brand new one side by side, I bet know one could tell the difference in tone/sound.

As far as it being geared towards younger players, that's nonsense. Even if Fender says so. If you like the way it feels and plays, buy it, I did and I am no kid. Death metal frets?...What the hell is that? I see kids today playing Metal with MIM and American Strats with EMG pickups. They didn't care about the frets. Yes they are larger as you well know in the HW1, and the neck is not as sticky as a regular Maple necks. I was sold on the neck the minute I played it. The larger frets rang the notes and cords better IMO. To me the HW1 just felt better then the Americans as I compared them side by side that day. I guess its all preference. And yes I do own a regular Strat so I know the difference.

Strat tone? ummm its there guys. If it weren't I would NOT have purchased it. Very Strat sounding because its a Strat made by Fender! May not be an American Standard, but trust me its a Strat and sound like one. VERY MUCH!

Stock pickups are keepers. Much better then I thought they would be. Perfect Strat tone in all positions IMO. I wouldn't give up this guitar for an American Standard any day.

Bottom line, its a great guitar and the price is right. I would have paid more.

[Offshore Angler]

Enough, let's just let this thread die before we end up at each other's throats. We're all buds here.

[dacop]

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

Well, they certainly don't play like a vintage axe, and those stock pups don't sound like traditional Strat pups, and Fender quite openly admits they are marketed towards younger players with different tastes than the more traditional Strat buyers, so where is the brashness?

No bashing here, just interested in your opinion. I am surprised you think that honestly. Have you played one? I personally think the pickups sound exactly like a Strat. I recorded sample licks using the HW1 and a Standard just for kicks, both stock pups. Didnt hear a difference, both delivered a true Strat tone.

[tonyw]

Hey Angler there no animosity its just a debate. I for one can only quote what i see and smell in this instance of an instrument that lives beside me and sees more attention than my wife does.

Mines cracking mildly like safety glass on the top horn down to the pickguard, sorry if its doing that after 12months and you dont believe it, but it suites me fine as this guitar gets about 40+hours a week playing and never gets cleaned or pampered its just a player like the rest of my fleet. When i clean it i will take close ups of the perceived nitro finish, but dont hold your breath i wont clean it until about November.