Battle of the bridges

mark1406 · October 20th, 2009, 05:34 AM

50s Strat Bridge Assembly | RetroSpec LLC

Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Vintage S Bridge Assembly)

Any opinions on bridges?

My Strat's bridge is showings signs of wear, and I wonder what it the better bridge is?

The Callaham does have good rap, but how true to the original is it, or is it better?

Opinions and findings please.

As far as what I want from the bridge. I find the chiminess is there but not as much as it should be, I heard an acquaintance's custom made strat and it sounded exactly like a very good 60's strat, more so than any recent Fender I've heard in fact. It had that presence in the top end.

Yours Sincerely

Mark Abbott

ToneRanger · October 20th, 2009, 07:25 AM

Of the two you listed – the Callaham is half the price and from what I’m seeing in the pics more accurate.
The issue I see with the RetroSpec is the position of the bevel on the bottom of the plate - here’s how Bill Callaham describes it:

The bevel on the bottom side of the plate which allows the bridge to pivot must not extend past the diameter of the pivot screw. We take care in machining this angle. It allows the bridge to pivot along a single axis. The Fender bridge is not only crudely angled but extends well past the diameter of the pivot screws. This causes the bridge now to try and pivot along 2 axis. The bridge slides down the screws instead of pivoting and then must slide back up on return. This creates unnecessary friction and inconsistent return to pitch.

The bridge from Retro, although better than the Fender, still has the bevel behind and not even with the screw holes.

I installed a full Callaham bridge in my #1 strat, installed Callaham block and saddles on another and installed one of Celtrocka’s blocks on a 3rd – all sound great. The block and saddles I think are biggest contributors to the tone, although all the pieces play a part. That presence you're looking for - it's there in spades - my strats almost sound like acoustic guitars when you strum them now - full, resonant, with that high end "zing."

The important things in the design of the block:
a) the materials used - you want cold rolled, lead free steel
b) there is no paint on the block under the bridge plate and
c) that the depth of the string holes where the ball ends sit is shallow. In the late 60’s or early 70’s Fender started routing out deeper holes in the block to allow room for their Bullet end strings – but in doing so they removed mass from the block, and it's generally agreed that mass = sustain.
Both Callaham and Celtocka’s blocks are engineered with shallow holes like the original pre-CBS strats.

If you want just the block I suggest Celt’s block – it’s actually a little heavier than the Callaham, and about $20 cheaper.
If you want a more complete assembly then go with Callaham (btw, Specialtyguitars.com has free shipping over $100 on Callaham parts…)

thaus · October 20th, 2009, 09:39 AM

I like the Callaham products and have several whole assemblies and a couple of strats with just the block. When you say wearing out, how is your bridge wearing out?

ghostwolf · October 20th, 2009, 11:14 AM

gotoh traditional at stewmac is a good bridge. use them on all my builds

thaus · October 20th, 2009, 11:16 AM

I am going to have to try one of those Gotoh ones; have heard good things and they are reasonably priced.

Astro1176 · October 20th, 2009, 02:34 PM

I always was under the impression that a Callaham bridge was not supposed to be a repro, but an innovative improvement on the vintage Fender bridges; Callaham has made modifications to the way the arm fits, and I beleive the pivot poit is also an 'innovation' (the blurb sounds like a load of hokum and makes no geometric sense. It may or may not improve tuning stability but it doesn't achieve the geometric goals it claims).

Callaham's choice of materials and designs are meant to fix the original design in various areas, so this is not the best bridge for some sort of super-authentic reproduction vintage strat. I have one of these bridges and love it though it is beautifully engineered and despite my suspicion about the pivot point, it is a fabulous sounding and working and looking bridge.

The other bridge aims to meet the repro market who actually want a bridge just like they were in the 50s or whenever. I am not enough of a historian to know how well this bridge meets its aims, but you should be aware of this different accent in design goals.

thaus · October 20th, 2009, 10:00 PM

There was an interesting thread with Mike Eldred discussing Bill Callaham........kind of makes you wonder about some of the claims that Callaham makes. I love the quality of their stuff but some of the descriptions are a little much at times!

Scott360 · October 20th, 2009, 11:30 PM

Definitely go with the Callaham full assembly bridge. I debated about getting one for months, but when I finally installed mine it made such a huge improvement in my Strat's tone - its all about the steel block. The quality of the steel is excellent and the bridge parts are so finely made and stable that string height and intonation adjustments are very easy. Callaham also sells a special allen wrench tool on his site for saddle height adjustments - best $5 or $6 I ever spent! you won't regret the Callaham.

mark1406 · October 22nd, 2009, 04:51 AM

Thanks for the advice guys.

Mark

ToneRanger · October 22nd, 2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaus

There was an interesting thread with Mike Eldred discussing Bill Callaham........kind of makes you wonder about some of the claims that Callaham makes. I love the quality of their stuff but some of the descriptions are a little much at times!

I can at least vouch for the bridge plate angle claim - the Fender vintage trem does exactly what Callaham describes - it pivots and slides down the screw - especially on the treble side. The Callaham, from all I've seen, works correctly in that it only pivots...

thaus · October 22nd, 2009, 08:27 AM

A lot of techs will take the bridge plate and file down the screw holes so there is a better angle, much what Callaham produces. So there probably is something to his claim. All of that notwithstanding, his products just exude quality and is a pleasure to install.

fumbler · October 22nd, 2009, 09:51 AM

If you had ever broken off a tremelo arm in the block (as I have) then you'd appreciate the improvements Callaham's made.

mark1406 · October 23rd, 2009, 07:32 AM

Here are a few shots of my bridge. I think some of the six holes are wearing quicker than other holes. This bridge was modified by Greg Fryer to stay in tune. Prior to the mod, it would stay in tune for 1/2 step vibrato and go out of tune with whole step vibrato. An EVH maneuver was suicide!
When Greg improved the bearing edge, the guitar did 1 tone vibrato all night, and was very forgiving of sloppy EVH maneuvers.

Greg did comment that my bridge was much softer than vintage bridges. Perhaps they aren't hardened anymore or the vintage bridges were harder due to their age. I don't know, but experience had already shown me that the bridge is an inferior item tuning wise.

I forgot to mention that there are swirl marks in the bridge that look like casting marks and not due to machining. I should point out that I know nothing about machining metal.

As far as Mike Eldred and Bill Callaham go. I wouldn't place any greater importance on Mike Eldreds statements than Bill Callaham's. Both have vested interests in the product they represent.

Fender will aggressively pursue someone who is perceived as building a better product then them. I once made a comment on a Fender forum that Fralin make better Strat pickups then Fender. The reply was something to the effect that it is ridiculous to think anyone makes better pickups then Fender.

Of course if the only thing you make is pickups and Guitar Player magazine proclaims Fralin pickups as the best. It is probable that they make a very good product.

I have seen two Callaham Strat bridges, they are clearly better made than a Fender bridge, mind you, this does not mean that they sound better.

There is also another option that I forgot. Chris Kinman gives them a good rap.

DeTemple Titanium Trem Blocks

Let me know what you think?

Mark

AllroyPA · October 23rd, 2009, 07:46 AM

This is confusing ... what are you looking for comments on ? What's a bearing edge?

mark1406 · October 23rd, 2009, 07:54 AM

Dear AllroyPA

I have stated my personal findings, though everyone has some sort of personal bias.

If someone has a different opinion or perhaps thinks I'f missed some important point, then I'm only too happy to listen to them.

I suppose what I'm saying is, do my finding line up with your findings?

Mark

ToneRanger · October 23rd, 2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

I have seen two Callaham Strat bridges, they are clearly better made than a Fender bridge, mind you, this does not mean that they sound better.

At least from personal experience I can say that the guitar I had with a Fender vintage RI trem sounds better with the Callaham bridge. That's not to say that the current Fender was horrible or anything - as a matter of fact when I moved the AmVRI trem over to my mid 80's Squier the tonal improvement was DRASTIC over the stock pot metal Fender/Squier trem.
I'd say there was a 40% improvement in tone with the Call vs AmVRI - it still sounded like the same guitar, just fuller with more brilliance and sustain. There was a 70% improvement in the AmVRI vs stock Squier - it almost sounded like a completely different guitar - for the better...

thaus · October 23rd, 2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToneRanger

At least from personal experience I can say that the guitar I had with a Fender vintage RI trem sounds better with the Callaham bridge. That's not to say that the current Fender was horrible or anything - as a matter of fact when I moved the AmVRI trem over to my mid 80's Squier the tonal improvement was DRASTIC over the stock pot metal Fender/Squier trem.
I'd say there was a 40% improvement in tone with the Call vs AmVRI - it still sounded like the same guitar, just fuller with more brilliance and sustain. There was a 70% improvement in the AmVRI vs stock Squier - it almost sounded like a completely different guitar - for the better...

That's a good way to describe the tone difference........fuller! However, it is all subjective and some people will not hear it. The difference I am pretty sure every player will feel is just the fit and finish of the whole assembly. It just makes you use the trem with confidence because of the quality. The tone thing can be debated ad nauseum because everyone hears differently. I have 4 strats with Callaham hardware and I am totally happy with them.........

ToneRanger · October 23rd, 2009, 10:40 AM

The other biggest change I noticed (other than sound) - and that's with the Call hardware and the Celtrocka block - is the way the guitar feels - I can feel so much more resonance and vibration in my hands and against my body - it's like the dern things are ALIVE (there's some sort of weird "Frankenstein" jokes coming for that one I know...)

ToneRanger · October 23rd, 2009, 10:57 AM

"IT'S ALIVE!!! "

thaus · October 23rd, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToneRanger

"IT'S ALIVE!!! "

Oh man, I think there seems to be a guitar for every expression!!

capt_goodvibes · October 25th, 2009, 01:56 AM

Hey,
While reading all this info on Bridges I own a Squier Classic Vibe 60's stratocaster and Im wanting to replace the Bridge and Block (complete assembly) with a Callaham unit but Im unsure of which unit will fit straight into my Squier Classic Vibe 60's stratocaster, I think its this 1 ---> Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Mexican Standard Strat Upgrades) if anyone can tell me if this is the right 1 for my Guitar I'd appreciate it, if it isnt would you give me a link to the right bridge and Block for me
Thanks

mark1406 · October 25th, 2009, 02:27 AM

Tone Ranger thanks for quantifying the improvement.

I have heard so many people write up about these blocks and the improvements sound like what you'd expect to hear from a new set of strings. It makes it all that much more confusing. Then you have Mike Eldred defending Fender as he is paid to do.

I must confess I have played a few of the custom shop guitars and while they look nice, the tone hasn't been enough to make me want or have to own the instrument. While I played a couple of vintage strats and a Frank Grubisa strat (Callaham block and Fralin pickups) that really spoke tome. Unfortunately they were either too expensive or already had owners.

Mark

Mark