Neck too low in the pocket?

joeybsyc · March 3rd, 2009, 08:29 PM

I just took delivery of a nearly new MIM 60's classic series strat, and while it seems to play great, the first thing I noticed was that all 3 pu's were set pretty low in relation to the top of the pickguard... now I know often times the best done comes from having them low, but in this case it seems they HAVE to be set that low, as the neck sits deep in the pocket and the top of the fretboard is much closer to the top of the guitar body than any of my other strats... I'm 99% sure the guitar is unmodified, but it just seems odd the strings sit this close to the body. I could raise the action but its not excessively low as it is, its just a matter of the fretboard top surface being alot lower than any other strat I have... Understand what i mean? Is it something I just need to get used to, or should the neck be shimmed to raise it slightly?

07 road house · March 3rd, 2009, 08:51 PM

shim up the neck

backinit · March 3rd, 2009, 08:54 PM

If it plays well and you have enough pickup adjustment you can leave it alone. I would consider shimming the entire pocket. I would use a piece of hardwood veneer that's 1/16 - 3/32. Possibly a scrap from a damaged lauan hollow core door from Home Depot. For thin shims or to "tilt" a neck I cut a shim from a soft drink can.

joeybsyc · March 3rd, 2009, 09:16 PM

It plays fine... just seems odd that there's so little "room" between the strings and the pickguard. I don't think I'd want to shim the entire pocket, although I agree thats probably the only option aside from raising the action higher than I want it. Was basically just wondering if i was missing something obvious. Based on my pics, does anyone have one set up similarly? Like I said, I am 99% sure this is exactly how it came, and would be willing to bet all 60's classic series are similar in the fretboard-to-body relationship...I'd just like someone else who has one to verify.

pcorajr · March 3rd, 2009, 09:22 PM

If it plays well and there if no problems with tone then I would leave it alone. Nice guitar btw

asc67 · March 3rd, 2009, 11:39 PM

If it has a vintage 7 1/2 inch radius on the fretboard the edges will be lower than your other Strats. Your pickup height doesn't seem to low to me.

joeybsyc · March 4th, 2009, 06:50 AM

Yes it's a 7.5 radius... just seems weird I cant turn the pickup screws more than a turn or 2 before the tallest pole pieces start hitting the bottom of the strings.

Offshore Angler · March 4th, 2009, 06:52 AM

We need a shot of the bridge.

joeybsyc · March 4th, 2009, 08:02 AM

I'm at work now, but ill get a pic later... I can tell you the saddles are sitting rather low. Not bottomed out, but pretty low.

joeybsyc · March 4th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Ok, here are some pics of the bridge... hopefully it'll show whatever you need... as I said, the saddles are adjusted down pretty low, but none are bottomed completely out on the bridge. In comparing this guitar with other strats I have, it seems as thoughy the neck is simply "thinner" in overall profile than most, possibly because it's a 7.5 radius vs. all my others I think are 9.5"... but if you look at the first pics i posted you'll notice how the rosewood fretboard is actually flush with the pickguard, and even the side marker for the 21st fret is lower than the body... you can't even see the marker at that fret, as its completely inside the body. On all my other strats you can easily see the 21st fret marker on the side of the neck.

backinit · March 4th, 2009, 05:44 PM

Either the neck at the heel is thin or the neck cut out is too deep or both. If the action is good go with it, but like I said you can lift the neck. It sounds as though you are bothered some with this. If you raise the neck you will gain some pickup adjustment room.

asc67 · March 4th, 2009, 05:48 PM

If it bugs you just shim it up.

KRamone27 · March 4th, 2009, 05:56 PM

Is it me or does that pick guard look pretty thick? You might want to check the pocket depth, it should be 5/8" deep.

Strat-Man-Do · March 4th, 2009, 06:07 PM

Having the saddles lay on top of the bridge will rob tone. That would be my biggest concern of the issue. Yours are very close. You might find slightly better Tone with those saddles up higher. The PG looks like an aftermarket 4-ply also, but thats not gonna make a difference with the neck or bridge/saddles. Myself, I would want to get the neck and saddles up slightly higher

Pull it apart and check the depth of the neck pocket being at Fender Spec's.

joeybsyc · March 4th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strat-Man-Do

Having the saddles lay on top of the bridge will rob tone. That would be my biggest concern of the issue. Yours are very close. You might find slightly better Tone with those saddles up higher. The PG looks like an aftermarket 4-ply also, but thats not gonna make a difference with the neck or bridge/saddles. Myself, I would want to get the neck and saddles up slightly higher

Pull it apart and check the depth of the neck pocket being at Fender Spec's.

Theres nothing aftermarket about it. Its the stock Fender 3 ply green guard that came on it, I have another laying here that still has the classic 60's sticker on the front and its identical. I think you must be seeing its own reflection in the black paint of the body. I also don't believe the neck has ever been off of it. If I shim the neck wouldn't it have to be a rather thick shim to make any difference if I'm shimming the entire pocket? The more I look at it the more I'm thinking its fine and I'm just being overly anal about it. The saddles don't touch the bridge, in fact I have other strats that have them set lower than this one. I've been playing it all night and it DOES play fine and has great tone. Just has a little different "feel" than some other strats I have, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either.

Offshore Angler · March 5th, 2009, 07:12 AM

Looking at it, it doesn't look bad, but why the long screws? That looks ouchy! I'd replace the screws with shorter ones. The way it is now, I'd shred my hand on those things.

joeybsyc · March 5th, 2009, 08:46 AM

They're the original Fender issue grub screws, but yes, I agree I should look for some shorter ones to avoid the "ouchy". I just got this thing 2 days ago...

Offshore Angler · March 5th, 2009, 04:43 PM

Yeah, from what I see it looks like you have the trem cranked down. It's certainly OK the way it is. If you floated the trem you might run out of adjustment and have to shim the heel end of the pocket, but for the setup you have it looks just fine. Either way it's no big deal.

202dy · March 5th, 2009, 06:10 PM

Pickup height is measured relative to the strings. Nothing else matters. Fender spec is 1/8" and 3/32" bass and treble respectively measured from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string, with the string stopped at the last fret.

As far as the saddles go, they should mimic the radius of the fret board and the individual saddles should be parallel to the bridge plate. It is hard to tell from the images but it appears that a few of the saddles are tilted and not parallel. They should be straightened to eliminate potential buzzes.

If the guitar plays well, the rest of the geometry of the guitar is meaningless. Adjust your bridge and pickups and enjoy your guitar.

Lowdown · March 6th, 2009, 05:30 AM

I don't know?...That neck to me does look like it's sitting lower in the pocket than it should be. Have you got another strat you can take a reference measurement from? I know the pocket depth on the body should be 5/8",but before you take off the neck search around for a body - fretboard measurement.

CandyAppleHead · March 6th, 2009, 05:55 AM

That neck looks low to me. I think you really should be able to see a bit of maple on the neck where it butts onto the pickguard. My partscaster (with a MIJ neck) was like that, possibly due to the pocket having been gouged out a bit by the previous owner of the body, so I shimmed the entire pocket with a couple of pieces of veneer. OK it means you can see the edge when you look under the neck but it's no biggie for me.

The problems with the neck being too low are that you have very little room to adjust the pickup height, and when playing, the pick keeps hitting the guard a lot.

aidB · March 6th, 2009, 06:48 AM

Deffo too low.

Here's a pic of mine for reference:

This also makes the bridge height adjustment screws sit far too high. If, like me, you normally rest your palm there, your guitar must be uncomfortable to play. A shim would be one solution, but I don't see why you should have to start removing parts on a new guitar to fix something that should be right in the first place. Can you send/take the guitar back and exchange it?

Offshore Angler · March 6th, 2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Pickup height is measured relative to the strings. Nothing else matters...

I would respectfully challenge that statement. The proper way most experienced people set pickup height is by ear. You lower them to the deck and bring them up to the sweet spot. Given the diverse differences in windings, guass, pole stagger and general construction, using a dimension does nothing to guarantee the pickup will sound its best. The final adjustment will also depend on the the amp used and the player's style.

202dy · March 6th, 2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Offshore Angler

I would respectfully challenge that statement. The proper way most experienced people set pickup height is by ear. You lower them to the deck and bring them up to the sweet spot. Given the diverse differences in windings, guass, pole stagger and general construction, using a dimension does nothing to guarantee the pickup will sound its best. The final adjustment will also depend on the the amp used and the player's style.

Fender specifications as per the Mr. Gearhead site are 1/8" and 3/32" bass and treble respectively as measured from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the string with the string held down at the last fret. You will find similar corroboration in Dan Erlewine's book, Guitar Player Repair Guide. This is how luthier's and techs do it. This is how the manufacturer recommends it be done. These folks, of course, are some of the most experienced people.

Can this technique be refined? Certainly. This advice is given as a benchmark. From this point fine tuning can be done. It may be that a particular set of pickups with a particular gauge of strings used at a particular setup may require either raising or lowering the pickups to obtain the desired tone. Reality is that for most people this spec will be just fine.

Starting from a benchmark allows the tech to establish a base line from which to work on every guitar that crosses their bench. We start from the middle and work outward in the right direction because that is close to where most people want to be. The experienced person can benefit from the time savings as starting from "the deck" is not even in the ball park for anything but the most powerful magnets.

joeybsyc · March 11th, 2009, 08:58 PM

Just an update to this... While the guitar was playable as it was, I decided to try adding a very thin shim to the base of the neck pocket. It helped more than I expected... While the neck still sits a bit lower than most of my other strats, I was able to raise the saddles considerably, and eliminated the tall grub screws sticking up out of the saddles. Seems to have been exactly what it needed....and you can't tell there's any type of shim in it by looking at it. Thanks for tha advice everyone... I'm geting pretty good at tearing these things apart and making them better!

Offshore Angler · March 12th, 2009, 09:21 AM

Cool. Putting in a shim is easier than changing strings but many people are reluctant to do it. It can solve multiple ills on a guitar though. Nice pictures, by the way!