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Old January 24th, 2010, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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PINE bodys on the CV-50??

So what do you all think about the PINE used on the CV-50 Tele's? I've heard a few of the Cork Sniffers call them POS?

But I have to tell ya. I think combined with the Maple Neck on the Tele? They sound PERFECT together. IMO the PINE adds a little bit of warmth to the equation with the Maple neck. Its gives the guitar a perfect EQ if you ask me.

Why did FENDER get away from the PINE back in the day?

And how do you guys like it for a Tonewood? First time I ever heard it on a guitar. Obviously I didn't pay a fortune for it being a Squier. But my first impressions are very good. It certainly resonates well and makes for a great combo with the Maple neck as I mentioned. The weight on my Tele is perfect at just under 7.5-lbs so I find that to be a non-issue.

I've been playing nothing but this Tele for a solid week now. I'm pretty impressed with this guitar. I'm not positively sold on the bridge pick-up? But other than that I'm very happy. I'm thinking about a No-Caster bridge pick-up. Or a Fralin Twangmaster/ But I want to leave it as it is awhile first. The bridge certainly isn't bad at all. Its just not as rude as I am use to? But its a very good EQ with the neck pup and its not ear-piercing yet musical, so its very usable. It gets a great Twang and bite, and cuts through the mix well. So it is a good pup. I guess its gonna just come down to a matter of taste with me.

But anyway I don't want to get to far away from the wood issue. Thats really what I'm interested in hearing about with you guys. I own a Alder/Maple neck Tele also. IMO this is a pretty close match. Its hard for me to say exactly for the reason that my Alder tele has a Gibson PAF in the neck and a Modern/Vintage Rail in the bridge. So its a world away as far as pick-ups go. Basically a Rock and Roll machine. No Twang their. But yet I'm feeling theres some similiarltys in the woods with the Pine maybe being a hair warmer especially in the HIGH strings?

What are you all hearing? And are you digging what your hearing?

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Old January 24th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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I like mine a lot. Didn't realize it was pine until I read the spec sheets; would have thought it made the guitar lighter but it feels pretty weighty to me..........great guitars and if you need a telecaster in your collection, highly recommended!
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Old January 24th, 2010, 01:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Funny, since I bought the CV-50 I've heard it mentioned a few times about them being on the heavy side? That I have not noticed at all. MOF I've thought of them to be on the lighter side?
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Old January 24th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Pine is actually well respected amongst those in the know, lot's of guys on the Tele forums building customs have been using pine for a long time.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 01:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I've heard a few of the Cork Sniffers call them POS?
Don't they say that about everything, though?
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Old January 25th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Don't they say that about everything, though?
Well said.

I just remember that Fender originally went with Pine on thier Telecaster. Then for reasons unknown by me went another route? I suppose many factors could have come into play. just wondering?

By all means I like the guitar and its been getting a LOT of play.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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From reading about the early days of FMIC it seems many of the choices had more to do with practical reasons than anything. I've read Leo liked the way the early transparent finishes looked on ash. Also pine dents pretty easily, not quite as hard as ash or alder so that may have come into it too. However manufacturers have been using soft tone woods for years now. Some very expensive guitars are made from basswood, similar in hardness to pine. Sonically pine sounds great to my ears.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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First time I've heard it and I really like it.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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One of the downsides to pine is that it can be difficult to machine. It seems counter intuitive, but pine is so soft the cutter tools tend to leave ragged edges. Found out the hard way when making a big house number sign for my father-in-law a few years back, routed a 1/4" dado in soft pine that had more whiskers than a ZZ Top lookalike contest...
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Old January 26th, 2010, 01:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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As long as well selected pine was the exclusive domain of some real persnickety custom guitar builder/finishers, there seemed like no limit to how popular the medium might become. But once ordinary folks got on board, things kinda lost their glamour.

I have to look at pine all day long in my other activities. Unless it was 3x better than anything else, I would just as soon not fool with it. As best I can tell, it is not much better or worse than many other wood choices. Plus, the "pine" we see in Dixie is almost always "Southern Yellow Pine" and this stuff, while resilient and strong (very proud of the way the 1st growth SYP in my ravaged buildings stood up to Katrina) it is really prone to movement, twisting shrinking and swelling and that simply is not acceptable.

Might as well make them out of that cork you were talking about. :^
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Old January 26th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey what up Boris? I assume your pulling for N.O. in the Super Bowl and you read my post on that. In my heart I would LOVE to se them pull it off. Tough Task though.

I hear what your saying and yes I've built with it over the years also. My own Book-Case's are all Pine. And my Basement is done in Knotty Pine Paneling. I did it years ago when Grossmans was the King of the home-improvement centers. Remember that..lol

Anyway I never had a problem with using it. I just don't re-call it being recognized as a Tone-Wood? But I could be wrong as I believe Pine was used of Keyboards thus the nickname...PineTop Perkins? But that could be wrong also.

I'm likeing its Tone though and could honestly say this...................Spuce is one ToneWood I will never use on a guitar again. Feedsback and is much to loose in the lower end at loud volumes. I started with a Hamer Newport Pro don in mahogany/spuce. I now have a second-edition of the same guitar done with everything I thought needed to be upgraded. It all Maple on the body with a Mahogany neck and Ebony board. And its like day and night compared to the first Newport I owned. And that model recieved a GP Editors Pick award with 5-stars in every catagory. Fisrt guitar to ever do that with Guitar Player? IMHO Spruce might be Great with Violins. But I won't use it again on a Hollowbody guitar.

But I say that, just to confirm that when we use the word "Tone-Wood". That leaves a bit to be interpreted. And Pine is just a Wood that I seem to really like and it has me wondering. Has a nice Tone with this Tele.

BTW as far as WHITE PGs? I've heard a few guys mention they didn't care for the Black PGs and could "not" find a direct replacement that fitted correctly?

FENDERS HWY-1 TEXAS TELECASTER has a Five-hole PG thats a direct fit. I have one here from my Texas-Tele. But its a bright white, single-ply. And after looking at the Two? I personally prefer the Black. Maybe a Tortise-Shell would go nice in 3-ply. But I'm gonna stick with the stock look on this one I believe.

The bridge is done [Wilkinson T-3] and I believe I'll order a Electro-Socket Jack mount by Stewart-MacDonald. Which I really like on Telecasters. But for now I just pulled it apart and used Clear-Nail poish and tightened it. But ya Loc-Tight or anything like that will work fine. The Clear Polish just happened to be "right-here" with my old-lady so I just used that. But thats a easy quick-fix, and the S+M Electro-Socket is a real nice design and upgrade for Teles IMHO.

I'll add the photo of the PG on the guitar so you guys could see the Two-Looks for yourself in my next Post. The white Single-Ply looks OK. But the Black just looks better IMHO. You'll see for yourself. But the Texas Tele is anFender and a Perfect Fit. I didn't like it on my Texas Tele and changed that one to single-ply Black? Just sayin. I'll Post them and you could decide for yourself.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Here;s the look of the Two PGs by FENDER what do you Think?

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

White does look better in the Photos than in person though.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris Bubbanov View Post
As long as well selected pine was the exclusive domain of some real persnickety custom guitar builder/finishers, there seemed like no limit to how popular the medium might become. But once ordinary folks got on board, things kinda lost their glamour.

I have to look at pine all day long in my other activities. Unless it was 3x better than anything else, I would just as soon not fool with it. As best I can tell, it is not much better or worse than many other wood choices. Plus, the "pine" we see in Dixie is almost always "Southern Yellow Pine" and this stuff, while resilient and strong (very proud of the way the 1st growth SYP in my ravaged buildings stood up to Katrina) it is really prone to movement, twisting shrinking and swelling and that simply is not acceptable.
:^
SYP is the popular choice for stick-built homes because it's cheap, & it's cheap cuz it grows fast, with quicker turnaround time from planting to harvest. I see "This Old House" refurb old houses all the time with pine flooring that they just refinish, & it's good to go for another 100 yrs...but that's always "old growth" pine, which grew naturally at its own pace, with tighter grain & all...and that stuff's gone for good, unless it's reclaimed.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 12:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well what happens for example is through the North-East. All the Northern Maple and Norhtern Ash will be gone do do insects from China introduced into this country as far back as the 93. Now its having a very large impact. This year the Ash survived only because we won the race to the Cold weather. Next year won't be the same. There's two different bugs that effect the Maple and Ash specifically.

All this land has to be used for re-growth. Pine is not the choice for re-growth. Its just that simple. Its certain that Maple or Northern Ash will "not" be the choice because of the fact that we now have a "new" population of Two diffenent insects from China which are attracted specifically too those two trees?

Spruce is one of the choices for sure. Its a Ten to Fifteen tear turnaround. And yea it sucks. But its gonna have to be done? The Maple and Ash that is so abuntant in the North-East will be a thing of the past. Its just everywhere right now and though we do not see the destruction now, we will very shortly. I hear Penn, is terrible with destruction from the insects as we speak. They are headed to New-England. This spring they will infest Mass, CT, and the rest of the Northern NE States

BTW I don't think the Northern Ash is gonna big that big of a thing. Personally I prefer the Southern Swamp Ash and that won't be so sorely missed. But the Maple is gonna be a very large problem for the music industry in the USA.

Pine is still all over the place in the North. All the Water Works in the North are loaded with Pine because of its filteration with water in close proximity. Any resevoir you walk through in the North is Loaded with old Pine.

But as far as wood for building? Another factor is ease of use. Pine is very easy to work with. Its easy to nail. Ever try to nail Oak? Or other hard-woods? All this comes into play with supply and demand for building. Looks and Great wood is NOT the issue with building. Just like you said, something you could throw up fast and will last 100-years is.

Though now building codes are getting much stricter. You don't see as much low grade Pine used up here anymore for framing. And all commercial is steel studs now.

But it was best said somewhere on one of these threads. Really we are our own worst enemy. And we have to bring back manufacturing to our country for our economy and work-force. China exports are a problem for a multitude of reasons. While its great to play and pay $349. for a CV Squier. Look at what its costing our country in ecological and economical terms now?

Lots of hard questions that won't be answered in this thread.

ANYWAY.......I put the WHITE PG on the Tele and its a easy 10-second fit. But what I didn't realize is the CV-50 Teles are Routed in the neck for Humbuckers. So for anyone whos not liking their "neck" Single-Coil? A Mini or Regular size Humbucker or P-90 will "all" be a piece of cake in this guitar!! You'll have to find a PG like a piece from Stew-Mac is what I would go with with. And then this way you could use the 5-Screw pattern without adding a bunch of un-needed holes to the body.

But the White I'm noticing shows the Grain and Darker color of the White off much better. And it shows off the Tint on the neck much more.
I kinda like the Single-Coil in the neck and have a humbucker Alder Tele. So that will stay, though a Mini might be in the future.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Notice the neck route? I'll take an inside look next string change. I just put on the XL 10-46s. So I'll wait a bit with that photo. But I'm not sure if "all" the CV-50's have their neck routes done this way. First time I seen this. OH I did a fast look inside the cavity and its fine. I just never seen this technique used though its a well done cavity.

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Old January 26th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My CV 50 is routed exactly like yours, and so is my Squier bullet. I believe that neck routing gives a bit of adjustability for the neck in case things dont come out square.

I have put a full-size humbucker, a strat neck pup using the stock screw holes in the body), and no neck pup at all (esquire) in my CV just for kicks. It works well with everything.

I've also been fortunate enough to have built a couple of bodies from some 60+ year old reclaimed pine, and both guitars are extremely resonent. They're actually quite amazing, while playing unpugged the body sounds out so loud and clear.

I finished both bodies in an thin skin nitro finish, which I imagine really helps these things sound good.

A friend and I performed the "tap" test on the wood, and compared it to a 3 year old chunk of pine with identicle proportions and the sound resonated through the 60 year stuff easily, it actually hurt your ear because the wood actually amplified the tapping.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 01:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Great discussion.

Very upsetting about the new issues with Ash and Maple. Just as Chestnut and Elm before it, so it seems.

As far as which ash is which, I consider "Swamp" ash by weight, not origin. So, could be some wonderful guitars are going up in smoke as these trees fall prey to the varmints.

Also, really old SYP takes on a rock hard quality, and that makes it too dense (heavy) and super prone to blow out during finishing.

Finally, wood choice often comes down to aesthetics. I like a Natural look clear finish pine body, and I love the way Ash grain streak telegraphs through a trans color finish. Once you obscure the grain, blonde is frankly just another color. I have a couple of "Ooops" bodies I ended up finishing in solid color blonde and they don't get finished to assembly because they are boring. To me.
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