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And the Gibson drama continues

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by MetalPedal, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:02 PM.

  1. TangerineDog

    TangerineDog Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 5, 2015
    The EU
    Why are they still surprised they're going bankrupt?o_O

    And the prices... what, do they think because they don't sell many guitars, the ones they do sell must be hilariously expensive so they make any money?
    Sure, just like the burger joint across the corner hoped that if anyone ever ordered their One-Million-Bucks-Burger, they'd finally be able to pay back their loans...

    And that when they hd finally made a move in the right direction with the Player Plus Models... it wasn't much, but it was something...
     

  2. strat_strummer

    strat_strummer Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    56
    807
    Dec 17, 2017
    Idaho

  3. bchaffin72

    bchaffin72 Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter Vendor Member

    Age:
    45
    Oct 4, 2008
    Stratford,Ontario
    I'd also have to be drunk enough to swallow my pride and stoned enough to disregard my embarrassment.
    And since I don't do those things anymore.............:D
     

  4. valor19

    valor19 Strat-Talker

    356
    Jun 17, 2010
    Alabama
    Hopefully they can shed some weight and save themselves. I think their core market is still solid, but they need to sell off their shares of Onkyo, Cerwin-Vega, etc. Focus on guitars.
     

  5. velvet_man

    velvet_man Strat-Talker

    389
    Sep 7, 2016
    Vancouver
    I saw this on Ultimate Guitar earlier. The consensus over there is that Fender should buy Gibson. What a crazy world that would be.
     
    Dare1 and bdtunaman like this.

  6. s5tuart

    s5tuart My Dad used to say.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    73
    Aug 8, 2011
    Bedford, UK
    Rather than focus on conglomerate mentality I would break it all down into proper separate manageable chunks with each CEO/Director responsible for an immediate upturn in performance and revenue, and maybe sell off or liquidate some of the under-performers. Present the new plan to fresh capitalists and, bingo, in comes the dosh to pay off the debts.
    Driving the whole thing from the corporate office isn't working and neither is the quality control department. I'm pretty sure you could sell $5000 dollar guitars all day long IF they were perfect! Currently, they're not, if you believe the stories.

    Divide and conquer!
     
    Stormy Monday and Textele like this.

  7. Mr C

    Mr C Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    44
    Feb 17, 2016
    New Zealand
    gibsons whole approach is schitzophrenic, they want to be bigger which means mass market, but then they use antiquated boutique production methods and designs that are really niche, they need to then do this in a high cost country for brand image purposes but the market won’t bear the price then then have to charge. The market for $5 grand plus guitars just isn’t big enough for a company of Gibson’s size. So they dabble in other stuff half heartedly not really knowing what else to do they fall into the classic sink cost trap and just don’t blue down on their failed strategies. The market won’t allow them to be innovative and punters prefer old second hand versions of their products to the new production, mostly for aesthetic reasons (using the broad definition of aesthetic). It’s a hell of a management Challenge, it’s hardly surprising they’re making a poor show of it. My guess is the current corporation is busted up and the brand properties go their seperate ways, Gibson and epiphone maybe staying together but probably not...
     
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  8. Textele

    Textele Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Oct 10, 2009
    Texas
    I agree with that business approach, almost exactly.

    But we need to remember the "HENRY" factor, unfortunately.

    Gibson (and Fender) owns some of the best guitar designs in the biz and have owned them for well over half a century. They are one of the few iconic brands that all others are judged by (as well as Fender). Almost every other popular design of other Manufacturers is a close facsimile of one of those designs.

    When Gibson guitars are right they are works of art that are a joy to play and hear.

    And if they concentrated on just that, and improved the consistency of their flagships.... well they would not be in the position they are to begin with IMO.
     
    JayFreddy, Dare1, s5tuart and 2 others like this.

  9. Green Craig

    Green Craig Senior Stratmaster

    Oct 15, 2012
    Michigan
    As I posted over at TDPRI, Gibson's problem(s) start at the ground up: They're not geared toward Main St. USA and mom-n-pop stores, they're geared toward high-volume dealers. The shop I used to work in couldn't sell Gibson because of Gibson's draconian business requirements. Per Gibson's requirements, you flat-out couldn't sell certain brands, you had to devote a (large) portion of your store space to Gibson and their associated brands, and you had to guarantee an obscenely high sales volume. It's really hard to try out and buy a new Gibson guitar if you're not in an area with a Guitar Center or similar chain. Fender and crew have restrictions, yeah, but in my experience, they're a lot more willing to deal with other brands.
     
    Artunes and circles like this.

  10. CephasG

    CephasG Strat-Talker

    Age:
    45
    129
    Dec 13, 2017
    Land of Lincoln
    I can totally see the "by Fender" subscript under the "Gibson" logo on the headstock. Wouldn't that be something? :D
     
    bdtunaman likes this.

  11. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    I have talked to dealers who have told me the same story, and they did not cary Gibson products for this reason.

    This seems totally bass ackwards. Shouldn't Gibson be sending reps to stores and asking/begging them to sell their guitars, and doing what it takes to get as many orders as possible? instead of acting like an elitist group who will only let you sell their brand if you agree to their terms?

    Seems to me that is not how sales usually works.
     
    s5tuart likes this.

  12. Class A Knob

    Class A Knob Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    42
    80
    Nov 25, 2017
    California
    JayFreddy likes this.

  13. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 10, 2014
    Initech, Inc.
    This can work if you have enough of a name behind your product to be able to throw that kind of weight around, but if the QC issues are as bad they’ve been, you lose that name.
     

  14. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    The problem is, Gibson sets their standards so high that no mom and pop store can carry their products. That pretty much leaves only large nationwide chains and online retailers. How is that a good business model?
     

  15. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 10, 2014
    Initech, Inc.
    It isn’t. I think that folks that buy off the showroom floor are more likely to go to a mom & pop if there’s one around; someone that would go to a big-box has a greater likelihood of buying online. Seems you’d wanna nurture the M&P’s, but when you can guarantee they’ll have to order a certain amount you can better predict what your own sales will be.
     
    JayFreddy, Ebidis and circles like this.

  16. circles

    circles Senior Stratmaster

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  17. otto6457

    otto6457 Strat-O-Master

    The crumbling of Gibson is sort of a weird feeling for me. I hate that Gibson is failing, but at the same time, I feel like this was destined to happen as soon as Henry took over. He was not then, is not now, and never will be a "guitar guy". I'm almost glad to see Henry choking on his own greed. I know that's wrong because a lot of people depend on Gibson for their paychecks. Gibson falling into bankruptcy will result in a lot of talented people losing their jobs because the first thing that happens in bankruptcy is the little people get screwed and the money people get rich. It would be a shame for the guitar side to be bought by a Chinese conglomerate and everything moved overseas. The Gibson name would survive, but the name wouldn't mean anything anymore.

    But on the complete flip side, I doubt I will ever buy a new Gibson anyway, so why do I really care? There are enough used Gibson's out there to last until long after I'm dead and gone. So why does it even matter to me? I'll hopefully buy a nice used 335 one of these days and maybe pretty LP to go with my rather plain Studio. But a new Gibson is not something I yearn for, or even think I could afford.

    The only reason I can come up with is nostalgia. I would hate to see Gibson fail simply because they have been around forever. A lot of my favorite players played Gibson's. And that might be a big part of Gibson's problem. There are too many "me's" out there that like Gibson's, but won't buy a new one. Plus it seems like Henry's plan all along has been to abandon the working musician and build expensive furniture for wealthy people. The whole "Lifestyle" thing rubs me the wrong way and I know a lot of people feel the same way.

    Anyway....I'm having trouble coming to grips with my own feelings about Gibson's coming crash.
     
    MetalPedal, Dare1, dante1963 and 6 others like this.

  18. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    I think there is truth in your statement, but Gibson is not the only company (even outside of the guitar industry) who is guilty of this.

    It seems to me that many companies who create a "lifestyle" brand image, do so on their name, and history, and quality becomes a secondary consideration to "prestige" pricing.
     
    Dare1 and Elvie like this.

  19. Neil.C

    Neil.C Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 3, 2012
    Surrey, England

    Fender tried it and failed.