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Be gentle, this is about as well as I can do this at this point.

Discussion in 'Home Recording Studio' started by Dadocaster, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Dammit. That's how I hear it too. Did not notice the pumping but the vox is for sure not IN and I have messed with it a lot and not found how to put them in a tidy nest. ARgh. :D
     
    fezz parka likes this.
  2. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    62
    May 30, 2013
    SE England
    You're definitely moving in the right direction with this. Personally, I don't find the breathy artifacts associated with high compression ratios offensive, in fact Steve Miller was one of the artists who made it a trademark sound back in the day. But I get what @fezz parka is saying.

    I'd like to hear the bass guitar more clearly defined against the kick drum, but I'm not sure how easy that would be without seeing your track layout.

    Often, it's better to use multiple compression stages on various elements of your mix. Reducing the dynamic range of the main stems or groups in your arrangements gives you a little more choice compared to slamming on a 'master' compressor at the stereo output.

    Great track though!
     
  3. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    I tend to use individual track compression on drums, bass, vox before they go anywhere else. Reduces the pumping. Likely it would not be that hard to get bass and kick out of each other's way, not that many tracks. I am pretty lazy, I usually just do a little boost somewhere the kick ain't. Already did that a bit but could probably find more...
     
  4. bluejazzoid

    bluejazzoid Strats Amore Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 14, 2009
    Southeast USA
    @Dadocaster - cool tune, and it's sounding better and better! :thumb:

    I'm enjoying following your progress on this, as well as soaking up all the great advice that Fezz, Simon and others are sharing! You are motivating me (and I'm sure others) to get off my butt and start recording *something* here at home instead of thinking about it endlessly... it's gotta happen! (an actual resolution this year)

    Thanks, and keep rolling!
     
    Dadocaster likes this.
  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka Do you Reach? Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Apr 21, 2011
    Going to Eden...Hey Brother...
    It's not the breaths between, it's the pumping
    I like to parallel them with the OT. I send them all to their own buss. Then blend them.
     
  6. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Yeah, I use template that has parallel comp set up for each buss. Not using it on this. I was just cleaning stuff up to have this mixed and started fiddling. Now I am too far in to bail.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Strat-Talk mobile app
     
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  7. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    I was hoping that my silliness might be helpful for folks. The recording/mixing/mastering stuff has a lot of steps and you have to hear about them before you can try to learn them or figure them out. I am at the stage where I sorta understand the process but I have holes in what I actually know how to do. So, me talking and asking questions and putting mixes up, maybe will fill in some stuff for others of you.

    Thanks for dropping by, stay if you like. :D
     
    CigBurn likes this.
  8. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    OK. I have had time to think about this while working. Birds? Nests? Big Birds? Small nests? Vice versa? One of each?

    I have reached these working theories:

    fezz has slipped a tooth on a cog or two

    fezz has gotten all mystical and is talking like a sensei

    fezz is concerned about birds

    While all of these are plausible, I am going to say that fezz is actually ok and has been using a carefully chosen metaphor. In this case, the song supporting the vocal, and the vocal suiting the song. The instrumental part of this, other than chasing around that damned hi hat bleed, is pretty easy due to being very few instruments. Couple of guitar tracks panned to either side, 4 tracks of drums to mix and match, a bass track. Pretty easy to find space. But the vocal is hard to hear, so I gradually turned it up, and now it's TOO BIG to sit in the song. My wild guess is that I am supposed to make a space for it, and make it work in that space. I would think mainly through use of EQ. Find some place that the vocal can call it's own so that it can be heard/felt/intelligible, possibly MAKE space, probably primarily in the guitar sounds.

    This is more stuff that I understand a little of the process but have not become good at doing it.

    Life and work have me tied up today, will have to be tomorrow. I hope I guess right.
     
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  9. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    I am super excited to work on this but now it appears I won't have a block of time until Saturday. It's entirely possible that I could sidestep this whole "effort" thing: I have CLA Vocals and the presets always amaze me because I can't figure out how the presets manage to sound so good regardless of what I use them in. Unfortunately they are not quite as mauled and gnarly as I prefer. Which is why I also have Butch Vig vocals. I don't actually find that plugin to be super useful on vocals but dang it has some interesting non vocals presets. So, since this has turned into a get smarterer kind of thing I am going to:

    Dupe that vocal track

    Do super quick edits, just a chop it up and get it a little more uniform in loudness

    Listen to some stuff that I have often noted as having vocals that sit "in" the mix

    Start from scratch and build the signal chain myself and do all the stuff manually

    So dang much fun. May try to sneak in some of the prep so that when it's time to mix, it will be time to mix.
     
    fezz parka likes this.
  10. fezz parka

    fezz parka Do you Reach? Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Apr 21, 2011
    Going to Eden...Hey Brother...
    Here's my 2 cents:

    EQ is top to bottom. So is compression.
    Space is front to back. Delay, reverb, room emulation.

    Drums wetter than bass. Wetter = Further away from the listener. Not quieter...further away in a spacial way.
    Guitars wetter than Vox.
    Vox should be the closest to the listener.

    Listen to the VOX on this. Dry. Like he was sitting in the cab of a truck singing the song. Pay no attention to the hard panning of everything else. That's an "Oh wow look what we can do!" thing. LOL






    Now let's look at LCR.

    Look at the front of a drum kit. Pretend the drummer is right handed, and the kit has two rack toms, one floor tom, one crash, one ride.

    Kick is straight up center.
    Snare is slightly to the right of center. Only slightly.
    Hats are a little more to the right.
    One rack tom is slightly to the right, the other slightly to the left.
    Floor tom is to the left, not hard, but definitely to the left.
    Crash is slightly off center.
    Ride is similar to the floor tom.
    Bass sits in the middle.
    Guitars slightly left and right.
    Solo instruments straight up the middle.
     
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  11. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Yessir. More stuff that I understand the concepts but not the implementation. I do pan my drum mics the way the kit is set up. The dry vocals thing is something that I often have noted and love, but sir, please, Wichita Lineman is one of the finest meldings of song/artist/production in all history. My god that voice!! Didn't know him but I miss him.

    Anyway, yeah, I have worked to educate myself on this stuff but ya still got to be able to do it. Of course, I can only hear on one side so I have to consult the cats regarding stereo image.
     
  12. fezz parka

    fezz parka Do you Reach? Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Apr 21, 2011
    Going to Eden...Hey Brother...
    And it won the Grammy for best engineered recording. That stroke of brilliance....no ambience on the VOX IMO is what made the recording technically brilliant.

    Screen shot 2019-01-03 at 5.45.35 PM.png
     
  13. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Works best with a fine, fine set of pipes.

    Or the pipes that dude in Cake has. :D
     
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  14. fezz parka

    fezz parka Do you Reach? Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Apr 21, 2011
    Going to Eden...Hey Brother...
    It works with Dylan too. It's an engineering technique. Like any technique you don't want to over use it. :D
     
  15. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 24, 2013
    Montevideo
    Hey man!

    I listened to the 1st version and the zillion and 1 version.

    I liked the second one better, definitely. Here is what I'd do to the zillion and 1:

    1) the kick needs a bit more of 50Hz and also more bite like 8kHz or so, maybe some paralell compressing, to stand out a bit more. Cut it at 100 Hz and 250 Hz. Also add a bit of 110 Hz or so in the bass guitar and try cutting the mud of out about 200-300 Hz.
    2) id use less reverb on the drums
    3) id add some stereo echo to the vocals, almost synced with the song, and at low volume, kinda 3 reps max. Also id take the top end of the echo.
    4) watch out for some noise gates that are cutting too fast in the riff at the end.

    You are doing it good keep up with it!

    Cheers! and have fun!
     
  16. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 24, 2013
    Montevideo
    I read the description of the ADT plugin u recommended and I wonder if there is any difference between that and a stereo delay set to 0ms on the left and lets say 30ms on the right channel. If not I got it all wrong :p
     
  17. fezz parka

    fezz parka Do you Reach? Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Apr 21, 2011
    Going to Eden...Hey Brother...
    You got it wrong.

    Wow...flutter. Can't get that with a straight delay.
    And the delay time varies slightly to replicate real double tracking. Very few singers can sing everything exactly the way they did the first time, both in pitch and timing.

    Look at the parameters you can control with the ADT:

    [​IMG]

    Download it and try it. It's free. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  18. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 24, 2013
    Montevideo
    Oh I get it, its more than just the delay, its delay and pitch variations (quick and slow ones), and the panning. Ill give it a try. Thanks.
     
  19. CigBurn

    CigBurn Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jun 22, 2014
    Same Shed Different Day
    It's a great plugin that is really useful. :thumb:
     
  20. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

    Sep 24, 2013
    Montevideo
    The download link didnt work for me. I takes me to the website but offers me to by soundbars... ¬¬
     
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