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Chinese Aliexpress Necks

Discussion in 'Squier Strat Forum' started by McNeish, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    That's a fair question, but I'm afraid that I don't think I can give you a good answer! The trouble with the word "lawsuit" is that it's over-used, & in many cases there never was an actual lawsuit! It's become another meaningless hype word. I see them as copies or tributes, but I doubt if either of those terms would be acceptable to the majority of ST members.

    Anyone else?
     

  2. Ravenmore

    Ravenmore Strat-Talker

    Age:
    50
    174
    Oct 9, 2017
    Cedar Park
    My point wasn't a 'letter of the law' thing but more of a 'spirit of ethics' thing. People seem to get up in arms morally about copying the head stock design but are perfectly fine ethically with the rest of the guitar being copied as long as it is branded something else. This seems hugely hypocritical to me.
     
    CigBurn likes this.

  3. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    That's a fair point.
     

  4. simoncroft

    simoncroft Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    61
    May 30, 2013
    SE England
    I clearly didn't explain myself very well. The point I was trying to make is that if a copy a guitar design from another manufacturer, but put my own brand on it, as Tokai has done, I am not counterfeiting in the sense of attempting to pass off my work as that of the original manufacturer. However, it may be that I have infringed some aspects of the original manufacturer's intellectual property, which could trigger a legal dispute.

    To be frank, I am vastly more concerned that illegally manufactured drugs, which are subject to no regulation during manufacture, are finding their way into the legitimate supply chain and therefore onto patients who need treatment. As the purity and efficacy of these drugs is unknown, it may be that the health of patients is at risk.

    I think we can all agree that is the truly unacceptable face of counterfeiting.
     

  5. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    A good point well made. I'm surprised how much time & effort some people on here expend on defending Fender's name - more effort than Fender makes themselves, it seems to me.
     
    bloomz likes this.

  6. fezz parka

    fezz parka Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    I disagree. Counterfeiting fails when there is no demand. So don't support them by buying their products. Buy from Allparts, or Warmoth, or any other company that has licensed by Fender on them. Or buy a paddle head stock and shape it yourself. :D
     
    montemerrick likes this.

  7. montemerrick

    montemerrick spiritual birthday, April 1 Strat-Talk Supporter

    but that would render the whole point of copying moot! the "wrong" headstock shape is probably the primary reason for those who shy away from G&L guitars... proving of course that there's money to be made passing yourself off as the thing you're copying...

    i mean, in the scope of world affairs obviously i'm more concerned about animal abuse, civil rights violations, oil pollution ( from plastics to tailpipes) etc etc etc etc, than i am about Fender's market share and guitar pirates, but whether it's music licensing or trademark or what have you... if you're trying to make money off something you don't own, you're trying to steal it.

    and from the demand side, if i keep going to the 2nd hand hardware store that has been proven to buy and sell stolen tools, then i'm giving my approval to tool thieves. now do i see a difference in scale between some hardworking carpenter getting her van broken into and Fender losing some dollars to a knock off? of course i do... i'm much more sympathetic to a carpenter or musician who gets ripped off than a corporation, but my ability to influence the world is in my contributions to it: integrity happens on this side of the equation.

    And you can find a perfectly legal high quality Allparts neck (as @fezz parka notes above) that will deliver the headstock shape we all love without breaking the bank... (or a less lovely but also legit mighty mite)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    simoncroft and fezz parka like this.

  8. vid1900

    vid1900 Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 25, 2016
    USA
    Think of car parts.

    I don't want to pay $969 for a genuine BMW alternator.

    But I can get an aftermarket alternator that fits the bolt pattern for $199.

    It looks close to the factory part, but no BMW markings to avoid a lawsuit.

    There is nothing really magical about a factory BMW alternator, I mean cars have had them since the 60s. Any patents on "automobile alternators" ran out 50 years ago.

    So I happily use my $199 alternator. If someone in the future want's to restore my rusting BMW back to stock, they are welcome to shell out the cash for an OEM replacement.
     

  9. simoncroft

    simoncroft Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    61
    May 30, 2013
    SE England
    This raises another dimension, to me anyway. I strongly suspect that, 50+ years down the line, some of the most overpaid individuals – sorry that last phrase should read 'finest legal minds' – on the planet could burn off a lot of time and money trying to establish what design aspects were genuinely protectable and which could reasonably be considered generic norms in electric guitar design.

    Most of us know that the Strat headstock shape owes a lot to Paul Bigsby, and we also know that itself Fender has changed the shape several times. Inevitably that raises the question as to how different the headstock shape has to be before it is not infringing Fender's design, and whether we should include every variation Fender chooses to produce, now and in the future. (And also exactly who's taking what from who, of course...)

    Let's take another example: Telecasters. We all know a Tele when we see one, don't we? So which of these are definitely Teles, and which are sufficiently dissimilar that we would say they only have some Telecaster-like characteristics?

    Jedson
    https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-in...-telecaster-type-1-electric-guitar/1246177690
    (We can all probably have a laugh at that one and agree that it's no threat to Fender. well, everyone part from this guy, who liked it so much he had a 'copy' built: http://equipboard.com/items/valley-arts-larry-carlton-custom-electric-guitar.)

    The next three are very obviously aimed straight at the Tele user, and even the names suggest a high degree of equivalency in some cases:

    G&L

    http://www.glguitars.com/instruments/usa/guitars/asat-classic-fullerton-standard/index.asp

    Peavey
    http://www.barryrudolph.com/newtoys/toys2/peaveyomniacjd.html

    FretKing
    https://fret-king.com/black-label/country-squire-fluence.html#.WgM3hYakJTY

    The next two seems to have moved away from the iconic pick-up configuration and even the materials...

    Fender
    https://shop.fender.com/en-GB/electric-guitars/telecaster/american-professional-telecaster/2017-limited-edition-american-professional-mahogany-tele-deluxe-shawbucker/0175104738.html#start=1

    https://shop.fender.com/en-GB/electric-guitars/telecaster/2017-limited-edition-malaysian-blackwood-telecaster-90/0175107721.html#start=1

    Let's face it people, as long-term Fender users we are expert opinion! If we can't decide what is and isn't a Strat headstock and what is and isn't a Telecaster, there doesn't seem a lot of point in Fender MI gunning for a little guy in China who makes a cut price replacement neck that mimics the dimensions of some, but by no means all, of Fender's Strat necks.

    I apologize to the OP for hijacking his thread, and hope he continues to be satisfied with his purchase. :thumb:

    Many of us who own Fender and Gibson guitars today started out on more-or-less copies of the guitars we dreamed of owning when we could afford it. This was mine:

    http://www.watkinsguitars.co.uk/rapiers.htm

    :D:D:D
     

  10. fezz parka

    fezz parka Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    It's the same thing as railing against ticket brokers. ;)
     
    bloomz and Bodean like this.

  11. vid1900

    vid1900 Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 25, 2016
    USA
    zzzzzzzzz1367529149.jpg
     

  12. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    No fezz, it's nothing remotely like that, as well you know.
     

  13. Ebidis

    Ebidis Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    It's not hypocritical. The headstock shape of Fender and Gibson is a legally copyrighted trademark. No other part of their guitars are.

    What is so bad about wanting to respect someones legally copyrighted intellectual property?
     

  14. Ravenmore

    Ravenmore Strat-Talker

    Age:
    50
    174
    Oct 9, 2017
    Cedar Park
    Like I mentioned above it's not a letter of the law point. People get upset morally about copying one part of the guitar but not the other, and neither copy is branded as an original. Sorry but yeah, I find that hypocritical. And honestly I think that might be an argument that would hold up in court if someone wanted to go there with it. That's why in this particular instance it is just not a big issue for me.
     

  15. fezz parka

    fezz parka Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Same thing . A personal opinion about how people/companies use services to make money. :D
     
    Chont and Bodean like this.

  16. TheDuck

    TheDuck Senior Stratmaster

    Jan 12, 2016
    Lil' Rhody
    If you don't support the practice, don't partake.

    Simple enough.
     
    bloomz, Bodean, vid1900 and 1 other person like this.

  17. fezz parka

    fezz parka Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Look at the recent judgment against Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams . Multi million dollar award to the Gaye family for copying Marvin's style. It used to be that you had to copy intervals. The Times they are a changing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
    Bodean likes this.

  18. TheDuck

    TheDuck Senior Stratmaster

    Jan 12, 2016
    Lil' Rhody
    Do you remember in the 80s when John Fogartys' label sued him for sounding too much like CCR?
    Times havent changed. Things are just as ass backwards as they've ever been.
     

  19. Ravenmore

    Ravenmore Strat-Talker

    Age:
    50
    174
    Oct 9, 2017
    Cedar Park
    This is why I make the distinction between law and ethics. The two can be exclusive of each other.
     

  20. fezz parka

    fezz parka Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    That lawsuit claimed Old Man Down The Road was Run Through TheJungle.

    Not even close .

    And Fogerty (the defendant) won by taking a guitar to court and playing. "How can I not sound like me?"
     
    simoncroft, Chont and TheDuck like this.