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Gilmour's Strat 0001

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by Fretmeltkid, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Most Honored Senior Member

    Age:
    43
    Feb 8, 2011
    Running with Scissors
    Those pics are skewed in the small version. They look correct when they are normal size. And yes the story from SD seems to indicate that he is mistaken about the guitar he thinks is his 0001. Sounds as if the 0001 (keep in mind there was/is more than one neck plate with 0001 on it) SD had was not the same as the one DG has. I read the thread they reference years ago on SD forum and my gut tells me DG's story and the provenience of his 0001 is the truth.
     
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.
  2. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Where do you guys see the neck pocket? Please share the picture or link?

    The story is very confusing.
    Taken from the SD forum:

    This is one of those folklore legends that has taken on a life of its own. Here’s the real story – and it’s actually a tale of two guitars. In 1976, right before he started Seymour Duncan Pickups, Seymour was doing guitar repair at Jensen’s Music, here in Santa Barbara. While he was there, a guy from Nipomo, California named Richard Green brought a ’57 Strat to Seymour to fix and refinish – he wanted the new color to be see-through root beer, like Bonnie Raitt’s guitar. Seymour remembers the original color as a light mint green; probably the same finish Fender used on some lap steels.

    Seymour sent the body to his friend and colleague Wayne Charvel for refinishing. Wayne was an authorized Fender repairman. But Wayne couldn’t refinish the body because the dings and nicks were too deep for a see-through finish. So Wayne used another Fender body, which he sprayed see-through root beer, and he sent it back to Seymour. (Back in the ‘70s, when you sent a neck or body to Fender for replacement, the practice was to saw the original in half and throw it away. However, in this case, the original body wasn’t destroyed...)

    The original neck went to another Santa Barbara repairman Phil Kubicki, who refinished it. It eventually made its way back to Seymour who re-plated the hardware gold, put the guitar back together (with the new body) and returned it to Richard Green. The neck plate said serial number #0001, but Seymour knew it wasn’t accurate since Fender didn’t do solid color finishes back then.

    Some time later, Seymour was visiting Wayne’s shop and saw the original ’57 body and bought it to use for a test guitar he was building. Seymour bought a ’57 maple neck from Kubicki for $85 and he bolted it onto the ’57 body. He wound some ‘60s replica pickups and used the guitar as a test bed. Eventually, he sold the Frankenstein guitar to a guy named Phil Taylor who in turn sold it to David Gilmour for $600. The neck plate said #0001; but like Richard Green’s, Seymour believed it to be non-original. Keep in mind, this was long before the vintage guitar craze had started; and was 15 years before the first Antiquity pickup was ever sold.

    So there ya have it. A Seymour Duncan User Group Exclusive! Unfortunately, Richard Green’s guitar was stolen in the ‘80s and is out there somewhere. If anyone has an idea of where it is, let Seymour or me know and we’ll get it back to Richard.
    And according to an article (which I can't find) written by David Mead for Guitarist Magazine, who examined the guitar for an article in 1995, the ash body is indeed white although it might appear to be aged Olympic White, pale green or even blue-ish on some pictures. The guitar features an anodized gold 8 hole 1-ply pickguard, custom gold plated tremolo system and output jack and Kluson Deluxe tuners. The pickups appear to be original 1954 Fenders with a 3-way pickup switch (the 5-way switch didn't surface until the mid 70's). I don't know if it was in this article that TG-5-54 neck and 9.28.54 body came from.

    Looking at the very little good pictures available, the neck doesn't look like a '54, with rounded edges. It has a round string tree which wouldn't be original to a '57 neck either, but if it's a "frankenstrat", everything is possible.
    Without better pictures and a documented inspection we will probably never know...
     
  3. Vic Interceptor

    Vic Interceptor Strat-Talker

    168
    Dec 28, 2017
    Sparkleberry SC
    hahahaha.... I would be happy to own the 0001 neckplate! Strats by design are just a wad of wood, plastic, spit and metal. There's nothing special about them ALL, just once in a while the stars line up and the law of averages works out in someone's favor. Gilmour is that guy.
     
  4. T Guitar Floyd

    T Guitar Floyd Senior Stratmaster

    Oct 27, 2014
    Arizona
    Have to agree with Skater and Mipstoo . . . that Seymour Duncan story has a lot of holes in it, perhaps due to memory loss. The part where SD "knew it wasn't accurate as Fender didn't do custom finishes back then" is arguable. I believe there are more than one 54 Strat with custom finish and gold (or silver) anodized guard. And . . . Mr. Interceptor above has quite the cynical outlook about Strats. They're certainly more than a "wad of wood, plastic," etc. :rolleyes:
     
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  5. Fretmeltkid

    Fretmeltkid Strat-Talker

    Age:
    56
    201
    Feb 10, 2018
    United Kingdom
    I often think it strange that virtually every guitar from the period has TG signatures........... he was one busy bloke!!!
    did all the guitars made by other people simply fade away or is this another result of the constant need to strip and show the innards of guitars all we are really doing is promoting fakery by showing people who would not normally see the detail exactly how to create fakes

    In the Seymour Duncan story an original 57 Strat was sent for restoration and came back a complete fake having had an aftermarket body fitted ? This original body then going on to make the Bitza so it must have been usable??
     
  6. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Don’t forget the numbers made were different as in the 60s when production increased exponentially. As TG mostly shaped necks and bodies you can do quite a lot in one year.

    Starting from 56 you see the XA necks (great necks) and more necks without signatures.
     
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  7. Fretmeltkid

    Fretmeltkid Strat-Talker

    Age:
    56
    201
    Feb 10, 2018
    United Kingdom
    Definitely a gentle curve on the lower neck pocket rather than the sharp squared off finish
    2.jpg
     
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  8. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    yes, definitely. Thanks

    And I don't think you have to look at it as creating fakes in those days. They were disassembled and reassembled with different parts and bits all the time. Value was lower so no harm was done.
     
  9. Fretmeltkid

    Fretmeltkid Strat-Talker

    Age:
    56
    201
    Feb 10, 2018
    United Kingdom
    I am as much to blame for that one
    parts got changed around weekly in my shed in the 70s and 80s too!!!
    there was certainly no "master plan" creating fakes as old Fenders were so affordable back then
    I was just trying stuff as it was possible with the bolt together construction
    I think most of mine have been put back as they were when possible but I cant be totally certain when it comes to small parts
     
  10. Guitar0621

    Guitar0621 Strat-Talker

    162
    May 24, 2017
    USA
    Where did the neck plates come from?

    Knob style is curious also.
     
  11. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Fullerton CA, I should imagine. o_O

    The knobs on the earliest Strats were a little different, this is covered in numerous books.
     
  12. Wayne D.

    Wayne D. Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 28, 2009
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    The plate was put on there by Seymour Duncan in 1976.

    This is one of those folklore legends that has taken on a life of its own. Here’s the real story – and it’s actually a tale of two guitars. In 1976, right before he started Seymour Duncan Pickups, Seymour was doing guitar repair at Jensen’s Music in Santa Barbara. While he was there, a gentleman from Nipomo, California named Richard Green brought a ’57 Strat to Seymour to fix and refinish – he wanted the new color to be see-through root beer, like Bonnie Raitt’s guitar. Seymour remembers the original color as a light mint green; probably the same finish Fender used on some lap steels.

    Seymour sent the body to his friend and colleague Wayne Charvel for refinishing. Charvel was an authorized Fender repairman. But he couldn’t refinish the body because the dings and nicks were too deep for a see-through finish. So he used another Fender body, which he sprayed see-through root beer, and he sent it back to Seymour. (Back in the ‘70s, when you sent a neck or body to Fender for replacement, the practice was to saw the original in half and throw it away. However, in this case, the original body wasn’t destroyed...)

    The original neck went to another Santa Barbara repairman Phil Kubicki, who refinished it. It eventually made its way back to Seymour who re-plated the hardware gold, put the guitar back together (with the new body) and returned it to Richard Green. The neck plate said serial number #0001, but Seymour knew it wasn’t accurate since Fender didn’t do solid color finishes back then so he kept it. Richard's strat was later stolen and never seen again.

    Some time later, Seymour was visiting Charvel’s shop and saw the original ’57 body and bought it to use for a test guitar he was building. Seymour bought a ’57 maple neck from Kubicki for $85 and he bolted it onto the ’57 body. He wound some ‘60s replica pickups and used the guitar as a test bed. The neck plate said #0001; but like Richard Green’s, Seymour believed it to be non-original. Keep in mind, this was long before the vintage guitar craze had started. Now today everyone believe's Gilmour's is an original '54 0001.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.
  13. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Isn't this the same story that was posted in post # 22?
     
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  14. T Guitar Floyd

    T Guitar Floyd Senior Stratmaster

    Oct 27, 2014
    Arizona
    Hey Wayne,
    As Stratman says above . . . don't think that story is completely quite "right". A lot of holes, some mentioned in other posts above and...gold plating looks way older than 70s. Remember there was that pic in that Fender book in 78 and the gold plating already looked way old then. Seymour was calling it a 55 Strat back then. o_O
     
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  15. Wayne D.

    Wayne D. Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 28, 2009
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    You guys are probably right. It was just a story I had saved in my 'favorites box' and figured it was partly correct as to where the plate actually came from. We'll probably never know the 'real truth' as time always seems to fog the memory. And Seymour had a tendency to move plates around, he put a 54 strat plate on Beck's Esquire when he got it. But the bottom line is I believe Dave's strat isn't 0001.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  16. T Guitar Floyd

    T Guitar Floyd Senior Stratmaster

    Oct 27, 2014
    Arizona
    Ok...according to the SD story, he refinished this guitar body and it was supposedly a 57, right? Why does it have Mary 9-28-54 penciled in the cavity? Did Seymour do that too? Why did he put a neck with TG-6-54 on that body? Then he gold plated the hardware? He took a photo of it (along with a some other photos of 50s Tele and Esquire) and they were included in a book, "The Fender Guitar" by Ken Achard in 67, as I recall. The finish and the gold plating were already very worn. Do you suppose he relic'd it to make it look like an old original finish? He also labeled it 1955 Stratocaster - photo by Seymour Duncan. Why 1955?
    So if the body was refinished, might have sanded down the squared edge of the neck slot. I guess anything is possible, but you might consider checking out the thread "Dave's White Stat" in this forum. It's a few pages back in the pre-CBS posts. A lot of ground was covered there that is being re-hashed here.
     
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  17. Guy Named Sue

    Guy Named Sue Beer me up Scotty Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 11, 2015
    Terra Incognito
    Don't you know that history repeats itself? :cool:
     
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  18. Wayne D.

    Wayne D. Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 28, 2009
    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    I had to refresh my memory on this, but the story I put up was Seymour's story of how he got the strat. He sold the strat to Alan Rogan, Pete Townshed's guitar tech, and Alan sold it to Phil Taylor, Dave's guitar tech, who in turn sold it to Dave. So you have two more people who could have messed with it before Dave got it. Of course if you talk to them today they are gonna be angels.
     
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  19. T Guitar Floyd

    T Guitar Floyd Senior Stratmaster

    Oct 27, 2014
    Arizona
    Ok, I've been looking in back pages of this section for the "Dave's White Strat" thread. Went back 34 pages and still can't find it, but did bring back a couple of zombie threads. 54 Strat Prototype and 1st Strat Ever Made. Both of those have a lot of info that's relevant to this subject, much of it provided by Wayne D.

    Your welcome! :)
     
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  20. Wayne D.

    Wayne D. Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 28, 2009
    Pittsburgh, Pa.