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I managed to repair my 64 Strat pickup :) - now I am wondering what destroyed it

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by inra311, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    The guard on my '65 isn't nitro cellulose, it's vinyl . No shrinkage here. :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017

  2. Adam Wolfaardt

    Adam Wolfaardt Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    223
    Jan 2, 2017
    France
    I've never heard of a nitro cellulose pickguard. I have always heard it referred to as celluloid
     

  3. Jimi Lightning

    Jimi Lightning Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 21, 2016
    Ontario, Canada
    Well done on the detective work and repair ! Very informative asI for one didnt know about pickguard shrinkage....Im sure all the viewers are eyeballing their starts now checking..... :)

    As was mentuioned if originality is to kept then just bag the original and replace with a new pickguard would have been my plan a supposed to sanding the cover or guard. You Will always have the original part and if you sell it its srill original.
     

  4. Michelotti

    Michelotti Strat-Talker

    102
    Aug 29, 2015
    England
     

  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Well then, you've learned something. Celluloid is nitro cellulose (cellulose nitrate) mixed with a plasticizer, usually camphor: :D
     
    CigBurn likes this.

  6. inra311

    inra311 Strat-Talker

    235
    Oct 12, 2008
    Europe
    I did some further research on the general properties of celluloide and the shrinking. Found much info in forums on knifes or pens...

    Though some state that the material itself is highly instable and might one day go crazy - like to shrink, crack, or deteriorate - it seems nevertheless be related to environmental factors, like heat, UV, and humidity. I feel it is mostly heat that is dangerous. Probably one afternoon in the car boot before the gig on a hot day causes more shrinking or damage than 30 years in your house when stored properly.

    Celluloide contains camphor, this might evaporate, I guess mainly at higher temperature. It seems 120 degrees F (48 degrees C) is already very dangerous, and surely possible in a black case in the sun, or in the car boot. I guess most of us do not gig with their pre-CBS guitars anymore so it should not be a problem to most of us, no reason to panic :)

    Also it seems that the evaporating camphor can 'infect' other celluloide parts: one becomes bad, others will follow. This was mentioned in the pens forum. So in case somebody has several of these pickguards stored in some bin, it is wiser to store them individually. The gas will also to bad things to other stuff, like make metal corrode or destroy plating. I know of a National steel guitar from the 30ies in almost mint condition, just under the celluloide pickguard it is golden instead of silver.


    Here is some scientific stuff on heat and celluloide:
    http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/nbstechnologic/nbstechnologicpaperT98.pdf


    Unfortunately hardly a replica pickguard looks as cool as the original ones ;)
     
    Yves, jofish and crashbelt like this.

  7. crashbelt

    crashbelt Strat-Talker

    195
    Feb 27, 2012
    England
    Great information- thanks:D
     

  8. Jimi Lightning

    Jimi Lightning Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 21, 2016
    Ontario, Canada
    I hear ya, but the theory is it would prevent furthur damage to pick upscetc.. by shrinking and you still have the original part. Do You still wear your favorite t shirt when it shrinks....probably not,it goes into a box for safe keeping....lol

    But, Ido agree the original is always cooler.
     

  9. Adam Wolfaardt

    Adam Wolfaardt Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    223
    Jan 2, 2017
    France
    Then why do we call it celluloid?
     

  10. candyapple1964

    candyapple1964 Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 9, 2014
    Australia
    The plastic can be referred to as the compound celluloid (made from nitrocellulose and camphor) or referred to by the (major) component used to create the compound . And that is nitrocellulose.

    I don't think it is that hard to understand :)
     
    fezz parka likes this.

  11. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Wiggler of Sticks Strat-Talk Supporter

    Who is this "we" ? LOL.

    You just love to argue. It's the same thing. Celluloid = nitro cellulose. Period. Argue with someone else. :D

    It's only hard to understand if you don't want to understand, and you're under the impression that you're already an expert with nothing else to learn. You know, a know-it-all.

    Here's a couple of people that I knew that referred to the celluloid guards as nitro cellulose. One was John Carruthers. The other was Art Valdez. Both highly experienced (50+years) repair technicians and in Art's case, a real Luthier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017

  12. Adam Wolfaardt

    Adam Wolfaardt Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    223
    Jan 2, 2017
    France
    I'm not arguing. I haven't claimed to know what's going on here. I've just always heard that vintage strats had nitro cellulose paint and celluloid pickguards. I didn't know that the pickguards had nitro cellulose in them but now I do
     

  13. CigBurn

    CigBurn Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jun 22, 2014
    The Shed
    This I did not know. :thumb: cool info.
     
    fezz parka likes this.

  14. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Certified Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Because that's what it is/was called this side of the Atlantic, like the cellulose paint used on cars, the nitro part wasn't ever mentioned.

    There are two "we"s, the Americans and everybody else.
     

  15. Adam Wolfaardt

    Adam Wolfaardt Strat-Talker

    Age:
    46
    223
    Jan 2, 2017
    France
    Be "we" I wasn't referring to any side of the Atlantic. Just we as the general vintage guitar community
     

  16. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Certified Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    I wasn't really referring to your use of "we", but yes it is generally called celluloid.
     
    Adam Wolfaardt likes this.

  17. Yves

    Yves Senior Stratmaster

    Jan 2, 2016
    London
    Reminds me the Carpet Crawlers
    "...The fleas cling to the golden fleece
    Hoping they'll find peace
    Each thought and gesture are caught in celluloid
    There's no hiding in my memory
    There's no room to avoid..."
     
    Thrup'ny Bit likes this.

  18. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Certified Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    the mind surely does move in mysterious ways... :confused:
     
    Yves likes this.

  19. candyapple1964

    candyapple1964 Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 9, 2014
    Australia
    There is also The Queens 'we'.
     

  20. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

    Nov 19, 2014
    Comfy Chair
    Also Queen's "We Will Rock You."