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In search of the Elusive Tone...

Discussion in 'The Effect effect' started by Strat Jacket, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois
    I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to duplicate to honk and snort Strat tone Rory Gallagher gets in the "Edged In Blue" solo beginning at 3:25...I'm presently playing my MIM Strat through my Fender Deluxe 90 which does the cleaner tones quite nicely, but as for the H&S sound...I'm lost. Any ideas, RG fans?

     
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  2. monwobobbo

    monwobobbo Strat-O-Master

    872
    Aug 30, 2010
    scottsville ny usa
    well since Rory often used a Vox AC 30 with a treble booster it's not that big a shock that you can't duplicate this tone. also he used vintage strats so the ceramics in your MIM won't quite get you there either.
     
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  3. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois
    Well, I do have my vintage '65 but it has a Fat Strat in the bridge position at present.
    Maybe I need to test drive an AC-30.
    I believe Rory used the Hawk treble booster in his early days...not sure if he was still using them when "Against The Grain" was released.
     

  4. Fuzzpop

    Fuzzpop Ryan-Ola Silver Member

    Age:
    36
    Aug 14, 2012
    Washington, D.C.
    Honestly, it has as much to do with volume as anything. Rory cranked an AC 30 and then sent it over the top with a treble booster as Monwobobbo said above. He right hand technique with the pick also had something to do with it. He could make it scream.

    Pretty sure he was still using the treble booster with either an AC30 or a Fender Twin until the mid-70s. And since Against the Grain was put out in 1975 (and likely recorded in late 74 or early 75) it's right on the edge there.
     
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  5. Fuzzpop

    Fuzzpop Ryan-Ola Silver Member

    Age:
    36
    Aug 14, 2012
    Washington, D.C.
    And to be fair, I've never been able to get a Rory tone without really cranking the amp, treble booster or now. He just pushed so much air.
     
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  6. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois
    Looks like from what sparse info I could find that Rory had left the AC 30's behind and was into the Fender Twins and Stramp amps.
     
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  7. stevierayfan91

    stevierayfan91 Dog WhispereR Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 20, 2011
    Private.
    Hi , buddy
    The FS-1 Dimarzio in your 65 Strat may be able to help get close to the effect of treble boost pedal.
    Can you put the amp volume to edge of distortion , than use that guitar ? The EQ of that pickup sounds nice and fat growly goodness.
    Edit to Add
    Sounds as if Rory has his Strat's volume knob backed off a little for clarity ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  8. stevierayfan91

    stevierayfan91 Dog WhispereR Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 20, 2011
    Private.
    Also , Rory is in my top 4 favorite players ever !!
     
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  9. BlurgyWurgyWibble

    BlurgyWurgyWibble Strat-Talk Member

    76
    Feb 10, 2018
    Japan
    Jeez what *****.
     
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  10. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jul 28, 2011
    Pawnee, Indiana
    they can get you close enough to where nobody could tell the difference unless they were listening to the two sounds side-by-side.
     
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  11. johnnymg

    johnnymg Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sep 5, 2015
    Central Coast Ca
    That sounds pretty compressed and saggy. My WAG would be to crank the gain/drive, add some compression, and also turn the treble down.
     
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  12. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois

    "Rory’s Stratocaster is a 1961 model, made during a period that produced some of the most sought-after guitars. When Rory first acquired it it was of course all original, but over the years he had done a number of mods and changes to the guitar. Most notable perhaps is the fact that two of the pickups were changed sometime in the mid 70s, following a failure."

    "I sweat a lot when I play and over the years the body’s absorbed a lot of moisture. I’ve often thought that it’s come to the end of its life. Recently two pick ups packed up together, they just cut out when I was playing. I was terrified that I wouldn’t be able to get new pick-ups to sound the same, but fortunately they matched perfectly."[International Musician and Recording World, April 1975]

    "Rory unfortunately does not mention which particular model of pickups he ended up replacing the originals with, but Kent Armstrong recently had a chance to inspect the guitar and found out that it had two mid ‘70s Fender pickups in it and an early DiMarzio FS1 in the bridge (ToneQuest Report July-August 2013 p.24)."

    Problem with the amp settings is this Deluxe 90 I have is both a solid state amp...and 90 watts. Lighting it up would probably have the cops banging on my door...one of the reasons I'm shopping for a good 15W tube amp.
    And Rory is in my Top #1 Player slot.;) He's held that position since I first heard him in 1978.:thumb:

    Also, Rory had his Strat modified for a master volume and master tone only.
     
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  13. Lester H

    Lester H Strat-Talker

    Age:
    44
    131
    Jun 6, 2018
    Kansas
    Don't forget the Herco nylon picks. They have a certain chirp to them.
     
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  14. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois
    Are they different than the Dunlop Tortex ones I use? (Dunlop purchased Herco from what I understand)
     

  15. monwobobbo

    monwobobbo Strat-O-Master

    872
    Aug 30, 2010
    scottsville ny usa
    if you are going to call me out please by all means tell us all how to do it. the OP is using a SS amp with some digital fx built in (not saying it's a bad amp just that it may not be up to the task). this isn't really in the ballpark of what Rory was using. so again feel free to tell the OP how he can get that tone with his current gear since you think i'm b.s.
     

  16. Lester H

    Lester H Strat-Talker

    Age:
    44
    131
    Jun 6, 2018
    Kansas
    Rory supposedly used dunlop tortex picks towards the end of his career but most of his career he used the herco flex 75 nylon picks. The Herco name was bought by dunlop but supposedly dunlop didn't use the correct or same formula of material but now they claim to have replicated the originals with the Herco Holy Grail picks. I have some but I never owned any originals so I can't confirm they are the same. They are a lot different than the regular dunlop nylon picks they offer so if someone thinks will be they aren't.

    Maybe I'm a little late to the game but I never had any idea how different picks can affect your tone. I have acquired lots of varieties of picks in just the last couple of years. I played fender mediums or heavys all my life and my drummer picked up an orange tortex .60 off the floor at a gig and gave me. I wouldn't normally use something that light but I noticed an immediate change in my tone. Much brighter than the fenders I'd always used.

    I could go on an on but I noticed the Herco Holy Grail picks gave me a smoother tone and the bass strings didn't have the snap I was used to hearing but they have a certain chirp is the best I can explain.

    Rory also supposedly used pure nickel fender strings and those in themselves will smooth out your tone because they aren't as bright as your run of the mill nickel plated steel strings. Plus the FS 1 bridge pickup isn't as bright as normal strat pickup and hooking the bridge pickup to the tone will cause you to lose some high end. So it's no wonder he used a treble booster into every amp he used because his whole set up into the amp was attenuating the highs. Plus he used an mxr dynacomp compressor as well supposedly. That can tame tones too.

    And from stuff I have read he used the normal channel and not top boost on his vox amp. He was a pretty unconventional guy it seems. He had great gear but like everything else he found a way to make it hard.
     
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  17. Lester H

    Lester H Strat-Talker

    Age:
    44
    131
    Jun 6, 2018
    Kansas
    dOQr.he777p.jpg

    After some experimentation if you get one of these herco picks and you roll it from the tip to one of the top edges you can saw on the string with the grippy surface and get some pretty good snarling biting tones. Could be a little hard on the strings but I think that will get you in the ballpark.

    If you do get these and try it you'll discover it's a sound you've heard a million times from a lot of '70s era guitarists. Its a chirp that sounds similar to adding a pinch harmonic on top of the note you played. These supposedly were a very popular pick for guitarists in Europe back then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  18. Lester H

    Lester H Strat-Talker

    Age:
    44
    131
    Jun 6, 2018
    Kansas
    Not to stir the pot and not to offend but based on some of the gear Rory used according to one dedicated website I bet he could play that solid-state fender and still sound like himself as he owned a couple. To me Rory could spot an amp at a yard sale on the way to gig, stop and buy it and use it that night.

    Yes today and barely by the end of his life in 94 his gear was vintage but in the 70s and early 80s he was probably considered to be playing outdated "junk". His gear was more in line with what a weekend warrior was probably using at the time than many so called professionals at the time.

    Imagine a time when guys would ask how do I make my '59 tweed bassman sound like John Fogerty's Kustom K200. You know it happened...
     

  19. monwobobbo

    monwobobbo Strat-O-Master

    872
    Aug 30, 2010
    scottsville ny usa
    sounding like himself and duplicating a tone are two different things. you are wrong about the weekend warrior thing though Rory used pro gear despite it not being all that fancy. my point really was that the OPs amp isn't going to sound like a cranked tube amp regardless of how hard he tries. he may be able to get in the ball park tone wise but is not going ot hit one out of the park. i've often found that tone chasing can be a bit of a fools errand. i also kinda doubt many guys in 1968 were worried about duplicating John Fogerty's tone all that much. his vocal tone sure but not the amp. pretty sure a 59 bassman could do a great clean tone an sound fantastic doing CCR songs (not that that was your point).
     

  20. Strat Jacket

    Strat Jacket Senior Stratmaster

    May 11, 2018
    Illinois
    For what it's worth, a tube amp is also on the shopping list.
    I realize I'll never get the smoky overdrive out of a SS amp that I'm looking for whether it's a Fender or not.
     
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