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Lets talk neck angles.

Discussion in 'Tech-Talk' started by amstratnut, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. JB74

    JB74 Strat-O-Master

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    Offsets with the tremolo are similar to a trapeze-bridge setup. The only difference is that the tremolo rocks the bridge so the intonation stays accurate. The bridge is not fixed hard into the body on an offset, rather the bridge pins are pointed and rock inside a bevelled pocket within a body dowel pin. The bridge pins are usually wrapped in a rubber / neoprene tube, to prevent excessive movement and to provide some cushioning. It's not a lot different to a standard tailpiece setup, or a bigsby, the only difference is that the bridge pins are not fixed, they are semi-floating or 'pivoting'. The advantage is the strings are not rubbing through the bridge saddles, the bridge is moving with the string.

    Getting the initial intonation setup on an offset can be problematic, but once set correctly they are stable and reliable. Most of the complaints from offset owners is due to the crappy fender bridge offerings. be it the original beehive type or the mustang type, both are flawed. Of the custom bridges, staytrem, mastery and truearc serpentune are probably the most popular. I prefer the Staytrem due to it's rigidity and adjustability. It also corrects the string spacing issues that offsets have, and has a much more solid and correct radius profile and saddle width.
     
  2. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    There is no geometric difference between the fretboard and strings on these two configurations.
    The only difference is the saddle height, and the clearance between the strings and the body.

    Neckangle.jpg
     
  3. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    Exactly. Thanks for clarifying my original post. Neck angle makes no difference to action.
     
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  4. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    But you left out the important diagram in which the pocket and neck combine to create neck angle the opposite way. That needs to be considered.
     
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  5. Nate D

    Nate D Senior Stratmaster

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    My guitar teacher when I was a kid was a jazz player and impressed on me the importance of being able to chord at every position on the neck. That being said I recently pulled a Strat out the I’ve not played in years and it’s got a 7.25” radius, vintage frets and the action is higher and I really enjoyed playing that guitar. I didn’t miss my low action whatsoever.

    I’d be remiss if I didn’t say that guitar set ups are like salt and pepper- season to taste.
     
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  6. Seamus OReally

    Seamus OReally Strat-Talker Silver Member

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    But doesn't neck angle affect break angle over the saddles? I've found that factor to have a noticeable effect on the feel and responsiveness of the strings.
     
  7. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    Break angle may affect the feel when bending, as does the length of string behind the nut and saddles. On a fender the difference in angle is very slight, so I doubt you'd notice it much. On a Les Paul some people claim that wrapping strings over the top of the tailpiece improves the feel. I personally wrap over on my Les Paul but that's so that the strings don't hit the back of the bridge when I screw the tailpiece down on the body (hopefully for better sustain). I can't detect any difference in feel.
     
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  8. circles

    circles Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    668670833457745295.jpg

    I like it.
     
  9. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    It still does not impact the geometry of the strings in relation to the fretboard *if* the bridge is positioned the same relative to the neck.
    If you tilt the neck back, you must raise the bridge to maintain the same string height.
    If you can not adjust the saddles to an acceptable string height, then you need to tilt the neck one way or another to allow for proper adjustment.

    But neck angle in and of itself has no impact on the action. That is purely a function of the nut, neck relief, and bridge position.
     
  10. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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  11. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Nitro-mancer Strat-Talk Supporter

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  12. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    ....and if you have tilt the other direction you have to route a hole in your guitar and inset the bridge INTO THE BODY OF THE GUITAR. So....... Is this procedure better than a shim?
     
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  13. circles

    circles Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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  14. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    100 million Floyd Rose-equipped guitars can't be wrong :D

    I never said that I disagreed with using shims to alter the neck angle. I was referring back to the comments that angling the neck back (on a properly set up guitar) will result in more even action. That is not true. Adjusting the neck angle simply allows you to move the saddles to a more desirable position in relation to the body. The geometry of the strings relative to the neck does not change once the action is adjusted back to x/64 (or "buzz and back it off a hair" if that's how we adjust).
     
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  15. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    If the angle is such that the saddles are too high (or can not be raised high enough due to adjustment limits, then yes, a shim is needed to push the neck forward to allow the saddles to be lowered.
    Likewise, if the saddles are too low and the adjusting screws are shredding your hand, the neck needs to be shimmed back to allow the saddles to be raised.
     
  16. simoncroft

    simoncroft Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I've been to the Torzal web site and I must admit, the design concepts are not explained very well. I think what I'm looking at is a neck where the frets are fanned out, rather than at right angles to the centre line of the neck, plus the neck is rotated in such a way that the high string and the low string are no longer at the same distance from the top of a conventional instrument. Without these vital pieces of information, the brain tries to resolve what the eyes are seeing, and comes to the conclusion that not only is the neck warped, but so are the strings!

    That's why I thought you'd been having a bit of fun in PhotoShop. I did something similar a few years ago, but for the purposes of illustrating what a neck warp was, without having to cause horrific damage to a guitar just to make a point.

    Please let me know if I've totally misunderstood the design concepts, because I'm quite intrigued.

    Absolutely agree on both your recent posts. I have to admit though, I have a real dislike of shims at the front of the neck pocket (tilt forward), as opposed to their usual location at the back of the neck pocket (tilt backwards). It's not a functional thing, it's just that the shim, and the gap it creates where the neck heel enters the pocket of the body gives me an acute attack of Bodgeitus. I'm usually the last person to take a router to a guitar body, but if the neck, body and bridge are that badly aligned, I think I'd have to reshape the pocket.

    This is exactly the situation I faced when I bought a beautiful Strat-type body on ebay, then realised after I got started that the pocket was routed for a Tune-0-omatic style bridge, not the Tele unit I'd just installed. Suffice to say, the strings sat about 3/16" too high. :eek::oops::oops:
     
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