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Major Scales, Modes and the Fretboard...

Discussion in 'Tab & Music Forum' started by AxemanVR, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Bowmap

    Bowmap Senior Stratmaster - Really? Gold Member

    Dec 23, 2017
    Where?
    40 years ago I learn to play the staff. Over 30 years ago I stopped playing and forgot most of everything. Scale modes are totally new to me. I had not heard of them until last week. AxemanVR diagrams of root got me thinking and then your challenge @heltershelton had me thinking all day. After I got home from a new spay and neuter clinic (another story in itself) I keep looking at your post 95. And then it hit me. From the 5th fret find the next root for the key desired without going above the 8th fret. Played some on my guitar and then started to use Corel draw to diagram and then thought there ought to be a diagraming program out there because diagramming in Corel would be tedious. I found one that I could edit. So I made the diagrams with it.
     
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  2. fezz parka

    fezz parka Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
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    F major. = F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E.
    C major = C, D, E, F, G, A, B

    I don't think in terms of "patterns". :)
    So.....
    The only note that's outside of F major is B.
    The only note that's outside of C is Bb.
     
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  3. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    im about to go ballistic.
    here was the question....
    your still playing the song that goes from the key of F maj and changes to the key of C maj, only your hand is stuck on the fifth fret (A) position for some reason.
    what PATTERNS do you play for each key, starting on the fifth fret?

    think in terms of "what is A in relation to each of these keys", then refer to the chart in post #95.
    i guess im gonna go ahead and give the answer, and then when i do, im gonna storm away...in rubber golashas.
    it would be A phrygian for the F major
    and A aeolian for the C major.
    im just tryin to help.
    why am i getting so angry over this?
    i seriously feel like i want to hurt somebody....
    no wonder Peggy used to throw stuff at us.....
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  4. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    im ok now.....listened to some frank...
     
  5. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    the male version of peggy meyers....(awesome movie, btw)
     
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  6. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Nitro-mancer Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sep 18, 2014
    Lewisville, TX
    The easiest way to get into modes is this:

    1) LEARN THE MAJOR SCALE!
    2) Play that major scale starting on different spots in relation to your root (the key the chords/song is in)

    For example, if a song is in the key of G, you can play the major scale starting NOT ON THE ROOT, BUT ON THE 4TH NOTE of the key of G, which is C. When you do that, you are playing G Mixolydian. You must realize that although you are playing the shape/notes of the key of C, you must keep the tonal center of your parent key (G).

    Here is a chart I made. You see the "R"? That is the spot where your parent key is. If you play the major scale on those other spots (dor=dorian, lyd=lydian, mix=mixo, etc) you are playing modes, but once again you have to realize that your tonal center is still that of the original key.

    This is the only shortcut I can give you. It takes time. You have to put in the time and effort, playing lead over songs or backing tracks.

    When you understand this method, then start playing the modes by altering the notes of the original major scale. For example, play the major scale and flat the 7th if you want to play mixo. You have to know the major scale like the back of your hand before you can become fluent in this method.

    Put in the time.

    Capture.JPG
     
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  7. fezz parka

    fezz parka Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
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    Its just a different way of describing them. I wouldn't call them patterns. I don't call them patterns. I'd call them modes.

    So based on the major scale in each key center, you have the 3rd degree in F, and the 6th degree in C. It's right there in the scales:

    F major. = 1-F, 2-G, 3-A, 4-Bb, 5-C, 6-D, 7-E.
    C major = 1-C, 2-D, 3-E, 4-F, 5-G, 6-A, 7-B

    :)
     
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  8. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    but fezz....i said specifically starting on A.
    its a math thing
     
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  9. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
  10. fezz parka

    fezz parka Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
    ₩¥€£§μГ
    It's calling them patterns. I don't think that way unless we're talking about chord shapes.

    A Aeolian over Cmaj7? CEGB. Implies a Cmaj13. Kinda cool.
    A Phrygian over Fmaj7? FACE.
    Consonance lives here if resolved to a chord tone.
     
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  11. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    thats the cool thing about this site. we all have different, and valid, ways of seeing things. we all learn from each other. i learn as much from a beginner as i do from a seasoned pro, because each makes my brain work......i mean.....my few cells
     
  12. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
  13. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    i know what now.....
     
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  14. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Jazzer Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Jazz chords :D
     
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  15. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Technically yes, but I'd look at a different way.


    The visual patterns are not the real issue - it's the melodic content, the actual notes.


    First, in assuming that your fingers only cover 4 frets - you can extend a finger in either direction to get more notes under the same hand position.

    THIS!!!!!

    The only note that is different between the C and F major scales is the B/Bb.

    One of my students called this one of the "cool notes", that is , the specific pitches that change when moving from one chord or scale to another.

    Thus I often think in terms of the notes that need to be changed when moving from tonal centers or chord pattern to others.
     
  16. AxemanVR

    AxemanVR I appreciate, therefore I am... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 8, 2014
    Minnesota USA
    `
    I once made a correlation between music theory and mathematics and literally got my a** handed to me!

    That said, "A440 hz" "stacking 3rds" "6/4 inversions" "I vi iii IV bII V7 I" "4 beats per measure/quarter note gets the beat" "the Pythagorean perfect fifth 3:2 ratio all sound a lot like mathematical descriptions or equations to me.

    Of course "actual music" has much less of a resemblance to math(s)...


    `
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  17. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California

    If you begin the pitches in C major from tonic A, it's natural minor in A; if you consider A the tonic of the pitches used in the scale of F major, it's A Phyrigian.

    This is basic modal stuff.
     
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  18. fezz parka

    fezz parka Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
    ₩¥€£§μГ
    Well...read some Hindemith.

    Music is math. Fractions, addition, subtraction,multiplication, division..... It's also art. Art/science. Whoever handed you your ass pulled a fast one on you. A sucker punch.
     
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  19. fezz parka

    fezz parka Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
    ₩¥€£§μГ
    @davidKOS

    That Russian site for the Hindemith link always throws you into the approval zone. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  20. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California

    OK...thanks, buddy:thumb:

    Particularly "The Craft of Musical Composition" Book I theoretical part

    do a search for this book, read it many times!
     
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