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Markings in Neck Pocket 1962 Stratocaster

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by csy5fr, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    hello,

    I‘m up to acquire a 1962 Fiesta Red Strat in a very good original condition. The only thing which confuses me are the strange markings in the neck pocket. It looks like two stripes of duct tape was applied before spraying the red color and then writing 5-62 and „F. Red“ with a pencil. See pic. Neck date is Sept62.

    Does anybody has senn such a thing before? I‘ve some experience with vintage strats, but my early 60‘es knowledge is limited. Any idea?

    Thanks Christian

    1E9B610C-A2FC-41FD-91A7-EAFB1BD6E0C0.jpeg
     

  2. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    Lots of Strats were resprayed red by the importers and even dealers in the UK back then because of this chap.

    hank.jpg
     
    Paperback Rocker likes this.

  3. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Hi Christian,

    Can you please post the following for us to help you with your request:
    • good quality pictures of all the cavities (pickup cavities, neck pocket, jack cup cavitiy and tremolo cavity?
    • a picture of the front of the body without the pickguard on
    • some pictures of the neck (date, heel back, headstock front)
    Better pictures as the one posted are needed.

    As always with Fender it is possible, but this is a first for me on that location...
     

  4. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    Hi,

    Sure, here are some more pics. But the rest of the body seems to be perfectly original. All nailholes are visible and at the right place, routings are pretty much as they should be. It‘s just the neck pocket which looks strange to me.

    F54E1563-944A-46EE-A607-3911926307AD.jpeg
    4E1E3AB8-56EE-4BAB-85E2-4BABEA89D6FF.jpeg
    3B345F25-52A2-4A81-9B6B-50480E17094B.jpeg
    CEDB762F-8478-4F76-B861-BB6C340E0040.jpeg
    6F94FAAF-E6E6-4C51-88FA-59834B3F0534.jpeg
    1A28418C-257D-4E5E-86BB-1AE229B5BE7D.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:


  5. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

    Nov 19, 2014
    Up a lazy river
    Is this Fiesta Red over Fiesta Red??

    [​IMG]
     

  6. Guy Named Sue

    Guy Named Sue Beer me up Scotty Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 11, 2015
    Limbo
    To me it looks like white base coat, fiesta red, some type of more vibrant red on top of fiesta red and then fiesta red on top of that.

    White
    Fiesta red
    Different red hue on top
    Fiesta red
    [​IMG]
     
    Thrup'ny Bit likes this.

  7. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    Hi, yes it looks strange, but when you hold the guitar in your hands you see it‘s „normal“ three layer Coating. Undercoat (white), main coat (Fiesta Red) and the a clear coat which had become sort of yellowish and less translucent with the years which results in that duller red. The light red on the undercoat is a very thin, not yet completely rubbed remnant of the main coat. That looks an feels (and smells) original. I‘m just puzzled, because I’ve never seen that duct tape thing with the written marking 5-62 and F. Red before. When you look very close, you can see some clear coat on the white undercoat, where the duct tape gets slightly out of place after spraying the red color.
     
    Mipstoo likes this.

  8. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Hi, I can't say I see anything that's off... I've never seen the tape in that location.
    The lacquer layers suggest it wasn't a rush job and that it was probably a custom ordered guitar. Base coat - colour coat - clear coat. If that's the case, it's possible that the tape was there to designate the guitar for the custom colour.
    What strikes me odd though, is that there is not a big colour difference (in the pictures) between the red under the pickguard and the on the rest of the body. If a clear coat was used, I'd suspect more colour shifting by being exposed to the sun and other elements.

    Is it from a reputable dealer or from a private seller?
    What's the explanation of the circle marks between the neck and the middle pickup? Was there an explanation given for that?
     
    Guy Named Sue likes this.

  9. bterry

    bterry Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    44
    67
    Jun 1, 2010
    Washington
    I've seen original tape markings in the neck cavities of custom color guitars before. They sometimes used this method to keep track of necks and bodies (for matching headstocks) that belonged to one another during the assembly process, and sometimes just to keep track of the color/order.

    The rarest I've even seen was a 1960 Strat with a tape marking of 'Roman Red'! A true, one-off custom color order for someone...

    I would be concerned if that date didn't match the neck date or close to it - or, if the date was etched into the body, indicating a later factory refinish...
     
    Guy Named Sue likes this.

  10. Guy Named Sue

    Guy Named Sue Beer me up Scotty Strat-Talk Supporter

    Feb 11, 2015
    Limbo
    Thanks for that! Just the other day I was wondering about the name of the finish of that Stratocaster that was posted here a while back. Roman Red! That's what it was!
     

  11. bterry

    bterry Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    44
    67
    Jun 1, 2010
    Washington
    That particular guitar came out of a local shop, I had the opportunity to play it and see it first-hand, including the tape marking.

    It was very clean, a really nice, vibrant red akin to Dakota Red. It had a really slim neck, but it was lovely, indeed!
     
    Guy Named Sue likes this.

  12. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    It‘s a known and reputabel dealer. No explanation for the circle markings so far. Neck stamp is 2SEP62B. Regarding the missing difference between clear coat under the pickguard and the rest - Yes, I recognized this as well. But all other signs lead to an original paint job. See pic No. 6 in my second thread. There is no red laquer in the edges of the pickup routes which shows sort of lazyness during the paint process. A repaint wouldn‘t have done this. Or the outworn screw-holes, hardly to reproduce...
    The rest like hardware, electric and neck are perfectly original. Pickguard is an early 60 replacement. Pot dates are correct. Even the case is a white 62 original. Only the body paint seems odd to me, but it is definitely an original Fender Body (nail holes, route tool markings etc.).

    But it is interesting to hear, that anybody else has seen the tape markings before....

    More ideas? (btw: thanks for helping me...)
     
    Mipstoo likes this.

  13. bterry

    bterry Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    44
    67
    Jun 1, 2010
    Washington
    What does it smell like? Sounds silly, I know, but...if you've ever smelled an old fender finish that can be a very good indication of refin vs original.
     
    Mipstoo likes this.

  14. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    Hehe... read the parenthesis in my second reply... first thing I did. Smelled absolutely correct! Even the case has the right odor...
     
    bterry and Mipstoo like this.

  15. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Yes, you can smell the old lacquer. Cases sometimes also get the particular odor.
    Talking about cases, it shouldn't be white, but brown...

    No red lacquer inside pickup routes is not laziness but rather an example of how thinly the lacquer was applied.
    Worn screw-holes are a good sign but can be reproduced. Same as the lack of lacquer in the pickup cavities.
    The smell is harder.

    I can only advise you to be careful and maybe ask a second opinion of someone who can evaluate the guitar in person.
    I've traded and bought mostly custom colours in the past and they're easiest to reproduce and replicated. Always check everything multiple times.
     

  16. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    Im pretty sure they had off-white/light brown (some call it coffee with lots of milk) Tolex cases with burnt orange plush from 59-61 then change to black with the reddish orange plush. Have seen some of these off-white cases. Look here http://www.eddievegas.com/store/det...CBS-Brown-Fender-Strat-Case-Orange-Lining.php - thats exactly the color of the case from this strat - looks definitely similar.

    And yes I will doublecheck all details. But it is a known dealer and I'm sure he's honorable as well as reliable, but maybe he doesn't know himself about the body, because the guitar is on consignment...

    I try to research more about the history of this guitar
     

  17. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 18, 2013
    Rockingham Palace
    Ok, you were talking about the brown cases. That's correct...
     

  18. csy5fr

    csy5fr Strat-Talk Member

    19
    Feb 25, 2015
    Germany
    Does Anybody has got a clue what these circular markings could be? Looks like holes filled with wooden dowels - especially the lower left one.
    upload_2018-6-14_21-23-18.png
     

  19. archetype

    archetype Strat-O-Master

    606
    Nov 26, 2016
    Williamsville NY
    Are we all sure this isn't Fiesta Red over Dakota Red over primer?
     

  20. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

    Nov 19, 2014
    Up a lazy river
    How does it stack up price-wise? Are you paying full custom colour premium?

    My opinion has always been that if there are unusual or unexplainable features in an old strat, i.e. things that are "possible" or "Fender may have done that", the price ought to be less.

    Because those questions will always be there and being asked - next time it sells, and the next time. Perhaps getting it (physically, not by email) into the hands of George Gruhn or the like they could give you a certification of 100% originality, but I'm guessing you're not sending it to Nashville.

    My philosophy is, take a gamble on it being absolutely correct, but don't pay full "being correct" price. Somewhere in the middle is right for me (i.e. between original and refinished pricing).