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MIJ STRAT WITH PAT PENDING NUMBERS

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by macoshark, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. macoshark

    macoshark Strat-Talker

    143
    Aug 30, 2016
    arizona
    Hi, I ran across a Japanese Strat on Craigs and noticed Pat. Pending numbers on the headstock. Has anyone here ran across something like this? Is it common? thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018

  2. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    Photos please...if something is off, it's not going to be the only thing off...we can spot lots of things to authenticate or confirm as not being correct....
     

  3. wvincagold

    wvincagold Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    54
    75
    Nov 28, 2017
    West Virginia
    No not at all. I have n 87 MIJ strat. And i inherited from my father who bought it new in 87 so I have been doing research into the MIJ. I have to say if you get a chance buy that sucker. Best strat you will ever play if its an early 85 to 89. They are sought after as the creme de le creme of the Japanese models. What are the numbers? If its an early it will start with E. The reason its prized is those years they used usa electronics in them. And that my friend is litterely all i know about MIJ strats. 20171126_180243.jpg
     

  4. John C

    John C Senior Stratmaster

    Jul 17, 2012
    Kansas City
    On the one you inherited that is the serial number that starts with the "E" in light gray under the "Fender" logo.
     

  5. wvincagold

    wvincagold Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    54
    75
    Nov 28, 2017
    West Virginia
    Uh yes. Thats how its identified as an '87. So does all yours say is patent pending? No numbers at all? Or does it have numbers and under it does it say patent pending. Because it should also have a patent number if its pending. And then what was the patent for? Mine has a Kahler tremolo and bridge. Came stock that way. But fenders patent ran out in what the 50s? Curiouser and curiouser. You may need to give Fender a call to actually know the provenance.
     

  6. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    Sorry, they did not have USA electronics in the E serials....some JV's had fullerton pickups....yours is a Contemporary model of some kind....Japan pickups, electronics, and System I, II or III tremolo

    The early stuff is not E serial...it's JV, SQ, A serial...then B,C,D and E....

    Your MIJ Strat knowledge is limited
     
    Thrup'ny Bit likes this.

  7. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    @John C is not the original poster of this thread.....he is an expert on this forum....
     

  8. Tone Guru

    Tone Guru Senior Stratmaster

    Dec 13, 2011
    Music City TN
    "Patent Pending" is used before a patent number is issued.
    It can't have both "pending" and a number.
    We need to see pics.
     

  9. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    MIJs don't have Pat. Pending on the headstock, never did. Somebody has used a fake decal. Now you have to ask "what else isn't right?"
     

  10. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    Which ain't a lot.
     

  11. John C

    John C Senior Stratmaster

    Jul 17, 2012
    Kansas City
    Oh - sorry for misunderstanding the question. Fender actually did have patents on certain parts of their guitars back in the 1950s; and of course those patents expired during the 1970s (patents have a 17-20 year life depending upon when they were applied for, granted, etc.). So circa 1961 Fender began putting the patent numbers that applied to specific instruments on the headstock decals under the "Fender" and "Model Name" decals - essentially the same spot where they would put the serial number starting in 1976 - after the patents had expired.

    The modern/FMIC-era Fender company sometimes includes the patent numbers on the headstock decals of reissue-type models. They were doing that for guitars from the Custom Shop in the 1990s and 2000s. When they re-worked the American Vintage models they put the patent numbers on the headstocks where appropriate - I know the AV '65 Strat had the ones that should have been present in 1965, as did the AV '64 Tele.

    Here's a photo of various Strat headstock used 1954-1966:

    [​IMG]

    As the patents expired they began to take them off the headstock decal - the large CBS style wound up with only 2 patent numbers by the mid-1970s, then they were removed completely in 1976 when they added the serial number to the headstock decal.

    What the OP was asking is if there have been any MIJs that had the headstock decals that included patent numbers; as to that I don't know as my knowledge of MIJs is pretty much limited to the Contemporary models from the 1980s like your father's guitar.
     
    Guitarmageddon likes this.

  12. macoshark

    macoshark Strat-Talker

    143
    Aug 30, 2016
    arizona

  13. macoshark

    macoshark Strat-Talker

    143
    Aug 30, 2016
    arizona

  14. crawdaddy

    crawdaddy Senior Stratmaster

    Feb 11, 2010
    Valley o Sun
    Looking at the pics, the first thing I noticed was the incorrect pickguard....it isn't even correct for a 50's model....BUT, it might be an aftermarket...

    Also, looking at the saddles, I wouldn't want to touch them for fear of getting tetanus...and they should have "Fender" etched in them....
     
    Ebidis likes this.

  15. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    You know what this honestly looks like to me? I wouldn't buy it by the way....

    It looks like a modified ST-362 Standard....which used to have a different logo on the headstock, 2 string trees, and basswood body and ceramic pickups...and is worth less.....

    [​IMG]

    No made in japan or crafted in japan designation, no serial number.....

    Look CLOSELY at the back of the headstock closeup....notice something near the bottom right corner of the first tuner (high E)? I think that's evidence of a modern Gotoh tuner fill and drill...it also looks like conversion bushings from the front for larger 10mm holes....

    I wouldn't even pay $300 in that condition
     

  16. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    The pickguard is OK, because it's a '60s model Strat, but I noticed the same thing with the saddles, no Fender stamp. Definitely not kosher. Also no serial number or MIJ/CIJ.

    Good spot on the drill & fill @Guitarmageddon I zoomed in, and I can see one at the corner of every tuner.

    Too many red flags.
     
    Yaralag likes this.

  17. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    And a mid 90s ST-362, at that, judging by the bridge, which along with all the screws has been aged by some chemical reaction or other.
     
    Guitarmageddon likes this.

  18. crawdaddy

    crawdaddy Senior Stratmaster

    Feb 11, 2010
    Valley o Sun
    I agree 100% about 2 many red flags...

    As for the P/G....it is an 8 screw which would be a 50's model, if the one in the photos wasn't a 3 ply...the P/G should be an 11 screw with the screw between the neck and middle pickups centered...

    00606_hcxfTldVAjs_1200x900.jpg
     

  19. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    When dealing with an ST-362, the normal '60s rosewood style should have 11 hole 3 ply pickguard' and '50s should have 8 hole one ply' does not apply

    @crawdaddy

    They used 8 hole thin 1 ply's on ST-362's which should have had 11 hole 3 ply...

    They also used 11 hole 3 ply's on ST-357's which should have had 8 hole 1 ply
     

  20. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    You're right. I didn't notice there were only 8 screws. An 8 screw 3 ply guard is completely wrong.

    This guitar is definitely not what it claims to be.
     
    crawdaddy likes this.