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NGD. Amazing early ESP 400 strat. Rare guitar I think

Discussion in 'Non-Fender S-Type Guitar Forum' started by Guppy, Dec 25, 2017.

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  1. nederemer

    nederemer Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    31
    731
    Oct 25, 2017
    Somerset, Kentucky, USA.
    A relatively rare guitar? Dude I live in the middle of B.F. Kentucky and a guy less than 30 minutes away (in even more the middle of nowhere somehow) had one in mint condition for sale for a third of your price. And he also may or may not have been currently incarcerated.

    Uncommon at the best, and in my opinion purely because anyone who wants a Stratocaster buys a Fender!
     

  2. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    Were that even close to true, Fender wouldn't need make guitars in Mexico or Japan, or to have Chinese Squiers to compete in the lower priced end of the market. ;)
     
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  3. nederemer

    nederemer Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    31
    731
    Oct 25, 2017
    Somerset, Kentucky, USA.
    Those are all produced by fender... which is still in the fender realm.

    Maybe you could say Tokai, but I would still say those are uncommon. Brand names are big stuff to people not in the know, you know.
     

  4. RobZ69

    RobZ69 Strat-O-Master

    536
    Apr 22, 2017
    The Netherlands
    Well, I have mixed feelings. One the one hand the OP did allude to selling it, but obviously not clearly enough so others here understood was he was doing. And now people feel misled.
    Had the OP stated he was intending to sell it, explicitly, the comments would likely have been largely the same. Mine would have been (had I known anything specific about this type of guitar from the period it is from). Had he then sold it for too much, people would have mocked the buyer, perhaps.

    On the other hand, it is not wrong to try to find out some more info about something you want to sell in order to at least not ask a too low price. But joining a forum for this specific reason and then not being completely transparent on that.... well. And starting the title if your post with "NGD" which is in my relatively short experience mainly used to boast new "keepers"... long sought after or not. Well....well...
    That's neigh on misleading...

    The OP's remark that a forum is something different than a marketplace is totally beside the point. Whether or not people feel they have been had or lied to, is the same for both.

    Well, at least we don't lose any money here...just a bit of faith in humanity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  5. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    They're produced by Fender because of Tokai and the other Japanese manufacturers, which are not at all uncommon outside the US.
     
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  6. pinkoboe

    pinkoboe Strat-Talk Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    45
    47
    May 18, 2009
    USA - San Francisco
    Just here to muddy up the waters here a bit on the dating of this guitar.

    The ESP 400 series first appeared in 1983, and its production ran until 1990. Over that time, it had three different headstocks; early rounded ESP, late linear ESP, and a full Fender strat knockoff (like the OP's sold guitar). In the US market, ESP (and Tokai as well) was sued by Fender for copyright infringement in 1985, and after that point no ESP guitars with the full stratocaster headstock were imported here, but were available in other markets. The 400 series became the traditional series in the early 90's and later became the Vintage Plus series.

    The OP's guitar could be as late as a 1990, as evidenced by this page from ESP's 1990 catalog:

    1990_ESP_Export_page_12.jpg
     
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  7. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    As you did with Thrup'ny Bit, in this post you state that I called you "a tool". As you well know I did no such thing, so please withdraw that allegation.

    You say that I am free to disagree with you & that's exactly what I did. I didn't like the hype in your advert & I thought the price was outrageous & unjustified. People who do stuff like that artificially inflate prices of Japanese guitars for others, & I don't approve of that. It's possible to write hype-free adverts - other people manage.
     
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  8. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Oh dear, here we go again. No, Tokais are NOT uncommon, they are merely uncommon IN THE USA! It's not the same thing......

    Please try to remember that most of the world is NOT the USA, & just because a statement applies there & is factually correct doesn't mean it's the same for the 95% of the planet that is not known as the USA.

    Tokais are not rare - it's simply that vested interests in the USA conspired to stop you guys from being able to buy them.
     
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  9. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    What a very helpful post, & great to see the catalogue page - I hadn't seen that before. But is it true to say that "ESP (and Tokai as well) was sued by Fender for copyright infringement in 1985"? I understood that "cease & desist" letters were sent, but nobody was actually sued?
     
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  10. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    So the point of this post is to prove that you know more than I do about a certain Japanese manufacturer? OK fine, congratulations! I have owned & sold one Bacchus (didn't like the fat neck) & you're quite correct that that doesn't make me an expert. That's probably why I don't claim to be an expert.....

    But you have confirmed what I said - they don't have anything called a "Custom Shop". Sure customers can order special one-off guitars, but that's not the same as having what Fender have as their Custom Shop. Which I think is the point I was trying to make in the first place.....

    o_O
     
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  11. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    May 21, 2010
    Sheffield, UK
    Only the early models had gold edging around the logo, they soon changed to plain black.
     

  12. thomo5150

    thomo5150 Strat-Talk Member

    89
    Dec 16, 2009
    Perth / Australia

    Please get a dictionary and look up the word custom... wait I’ll do it for you..

    made or done to order; custom-made.
    "a custom guitar"
     

  13. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Are you always this aggressive or is this a special treat for Strat Talk?
     

  14. balston11

    balston11 Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 8, 2013
    Preston UK
    I haven't been involved with this discussion but would like to add my two pennyworth to the Japanese custom shop order guitar debate. They are different things as some of you know I know a little about Yamaha guitar so I will use them as an example Yamaha have a custom shop the Wada Custom shop in Hamamatsu they have four "craftsmen" who build guitars for Yamaha artists and produce prototypes for production models; in general they do not advertise their services to the public although I am sure they would build you something if you offered enough money. They have from time to time had order guitars mainly Pacificas there is a whole range of colours, finishes, hardware, electronics etc you choose and they build it on their production line. I have no experience of ESP but imagine the term order guitars is similar with them
     
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  15. Guppy

    Guppy Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    42
    31
    Dec 24, 2017
    Netherlands
    Sorry. You didn't call me a tool. That response of me was awkwardly frased.
    Agree to disagree, to me, means not agreeing with someones action or reasoning but not judging someone for it. That is my final statement on this issue. Please keep discussing the guitar. I still think it's an interesting one.
     

  16. Guppy

    Guppy Strat-Talk Member

    Age:
    42
    31
    Dec 24, 2017
    Netherlands
    This.
     

  17. altar

    altar Strat-Talker

    460
    Oct 4, 2016
    USA

    I think you need to do a google search for "ESP Custom Shop"

    https://www.espguitars.com/photo_albums/1966806/photos
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  18. pinkoboe

    pinkoboe Strat-Talk Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    45
    47
    May 18, 2009
    USA - San Francisco
    They were full blown lawsuits.

    http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/F...ar-Copies/id-c2ee12ae4bfc74194618600af763f57d
     

  19. pinkoboe

    pinkoboe Strat-Talk Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    45
    47
    May 18, 2009
    USA - San Francisco
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  20. pinkoboe

    pinkoboe Strat-Talk Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    45
    47
    May 18, 2009
    USA - San Francisco
    No, the gold edging continued the the entire product run and is still on current production guitars. There were many variations over the years, with some smaller logos and those without the gold edging.