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Off axis, six inches off the grill, and closer to the outside of the cone.

Discussion in 'Home Recording Studio' started by Dadocaster, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    As usual, trying to mic an amp I find the recommended "up against the grill cloth, on axis, edge of voice coil dust cover" to be way too strident and fizzing with untamed high end. If I spend time on it, I end up half a foot off the cloth, of axis, and near the outside of the cone. Go figure.
     
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  2. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    What microphone are you using? Are you EQing it in post production too? If you leave it flat it will most likely sound horrible....usually needs a boost around 2.5k or so and a cut around 8-10.....
     
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  3. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Why would I do all that if I can get the sound I want by moving a mic stand four inches and twisting the adapter a bit?
     

  4. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    I dunno, I've never heard of leaving something flat and not EQ'ing or tweaking it on a professional type DAW recording....but if it works for you that's great!
     
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  5. Miotch

    Miotch Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    57
    Jun 28, 2011
    ok
    I always experiment with mic placement. And different mics (when I have access to them--I only own two). Have put them all over the place. If in a hurry at gunpoint, my default (starting position) is 1"-ish off cloth, about 2/3rds out from center of cone.
     
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  6. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    You make a lot of assumptions and then criticize on the basis of those assumptions. I do not need to be schooled or accused. My interest was in a discussion, not a detailed regurgitation of the advice/technique that I can find in 137 blogs/posts/how to vids.

    Here is something from Alan Parsons that I found a few years back, it's quite interesting:

    You’ve also said you avoid close mic placement on guitar amps. Is that still true?
    That’s absolutely true, because if you mic a speaker of an amplifier in a certain location, you’re just hearing that part of the speaker, you’re not hearing the whole speaker. So I’d say, generally speaking, you’re not getting the full picture. I think there’s this separation paranoia that people have with guitars. They go, “If I don’t stick the mic right on the cabinet, I’m going to pick up drums.” The simple truth is that you won’t. It will be fine—because the guitar is adequately loud, and anything else is adequately quiet. It’s not going to be a problem. Even on a live take, you can go as much as a foot away without problem. Live sound engineers just don’t seem to get it.

    Is about a foot away from the cabinet where you start?
    Live, I probably start eight to nine inches away. In the studio, I might even start a foot and a half, 18 inches away. And I might go as much as five or six feet away, depending on how loud it is and whether it’s a big cabinet with four speakers in it. You have to start at least 18 inches away to pick up all four speakers equally.

    Because you’re trying to capture the sound of the entire cabinet.
    Yeah, I think if you’re a guitar player, you hear the whole cabinet—you don’t just hear one speaker. I’m not saying that’s a rule or that you might not get a very good result just mic’ing one speaker. I’m just saying, as a general procedure, I would want to make sure that the entire rig is being heard, not just one element of it.
     

  7. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    You've totally misunderstood my responses - and I totally misunderstood your thread! I thought you were looking for advice on microphone placement.....

    My responses were lighthearted and enjoying interacting with people on the forum, my apologies if they seemed arrogant....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2018
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  8. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    with an sm57, i usually like to put it about an inch from the grill cloth and about halfway between the cone and the edge of the speaker.
    if you really want to be cool, try using two mics on one speaker then mixing the two later.
    one up close and one up to a foot away.
    if a mic sounds too fizzy, move it a bit closer to the edge, and if its too bassy or muddy, move it towards the cone.
     
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  9. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Cool.

    Can we turn this on it's head? Have you ever found situations putting a mic on a guitar amp where you ended up doing something totally different than you expected or that you commonly see?
     
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  10. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    That's how I ended up where I am. I also LOVE large diaphragm condensers on guitar amps. Wish I had cash for a ribbon mic.
     
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  11. Groovey

    Groovey Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    58
    Nov 17, 2016
    NC. USA
    I'd like to hear what @simoncroft has experienced with this..?
     
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  12. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    there really is no "one size fits all" when it comes to mic placement, since every guitar is going to be a bit different.
     
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  13. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    I have only ever really mic'ed a cabinet using 1 speaker (even if it's a 4X12) and using the off axis close mic technique.....

    The only other thing I've done besides that was years ago when we used mostly room mics to capture live sounds.....might have a guitar amp down a hallway and one mic close by and another one down the hallway.....using the 3:1 rule....
     
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  14. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    That's how it is for me but then, I find each day I live to be a bit different from all the others. :D
     
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  15. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    i was looking in one of the 742 sweetwater catalogs i have and some of those things were like $7000. and some were more.
    how the hell does a mic sound $7000 better?
    that law of diminishing returns thing.
     
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  16. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Room mics are the bomb. My space is small but is reasonably well acoustically treated. I like a lot of the lofi sounds that you hear on Black Keys and I like drums recorded simply. I have some stuff I need to get to be able to do it but the few times I have tried a room mic on drum kit, I liked the room mic sound better than the several mics on the kit.
     
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  17. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-A-Holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    Have you tried the Glyn Johns drum mic method? 2-3 mics...sounds great.....add a room mic you basically get the John Bonham sound....

    https://www.recordingrevolution.com/the-glyn-johns-drum-recording-method/
     
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  18. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sure, but like guitars and amps, once in a while something will hit your sweet spot. At that point, you desperately HOPE it's not the 7000 dollar one.

    (with respect to ribbon mics, they are hard to make and quality control is a big deal. I think that's where the pricing comes from.)
     
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  19. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    that is a good thing.
     
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  20. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    I settled on the Glyn Johns 4 mic setup a few years ago and use it for everything. It's kick, snare an overhead pointing down at the snare and then a lower mic off to the side. Nice sounding.

    [​IMG]
     
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