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Practical Jazz Workshop #1

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by dogletnoir, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    Yes, with the C leading in and the Eb instead of D. I think I found a version played like that on youtube but can't remember where, the C wasn't really played as an 1/8th, it was more of a grace note.
     

  2. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    I don't trust myself. There's a long and boring story behind that and it can be found it leas one other thread around here-so I won't bore you again :)
     
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  3. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Point me to the thread. :)
     
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  4. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    I've forgotten which one(s) :)
     

  5. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    i wouldn't play a true harmony part unless another instrument or voice was covering
    the main melody but i might change a note here and there &/or put a bit of rhythmic
    variation in the melody line if i was playing it all by myself.
    On the other hand, very tight unison parts are a signature element of the classic bebop style,
    as we can see here in these two different versions of Groovin' High, one from back in the heyday
    of the style and another from this millennium:

     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  6. duzie

    duzie Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    885
    May 1, 2016
    northwest nj
    Well I poo pooed playing the scales up and down trying to improv a solo to this .
    So I decide while I’m working on this I’ll just run up and down the F mixolydian and Bb mixolydian scales and the Db and Eb major scales playing eighth notes in time with the backing track .
    Holy crap I need to work on this !
    I guess my point is that this thread has pushed me to practice more .
    I’m not just trying to learn Jazz.
    I’m also learning fundamentals!
     
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  7. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    @duzie
    "I'm also learning fundamentals!"
    Exactly! That's part of what makes it a 'Practical Workshop': the fact that you can take
    what you're doing here and apply it to other musical situations even if you never end
    up sitting in with a jazz combo.
    i don't really play all that much straight jazz nowadays, but i definitely incorporate a lot
    of what i learned by doing it into the music that i do make. :)

    Practical hint: don't run the scales; think more in terms of chord tone arpeggios from those scales instead.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018

  8. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Thank you. This is a relief. I don’t know how to play harmony :D

    For now, I’ll focus on the first 8 bars as they didn’t sound right. Also the solo part; my phrasing is boring.
    I agree. I’m learning new dominant 7th chords and pushing my ears to recognize them.
     
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  9. duzie

    duzie Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    885
    May 1, 2016
    northwest nj
    Thanks dogletnoir!
    I was using those scales as more of an exercise ,and not trying to apply them to the song .
    Arpeggios are another thing I need to work on .
    You and the others involved in running this are helping me tremendously!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  10. Electgumbo

    Electgumbo Lost Planet Airman Strat-Talk Supporter

    Dec 26, 2010
    Scott La.
    Geeez! 28 pages and 500 and something posts ... I’ll never get too every thing on this thread... but you guys and gals keep on pecking away at it...
     
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  11. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    No worries... but personally i have found that the best exercises are the ones with the most direct
    and musical application to what i'm trying to work on.
    So yes, work those arpeggios! :)
     
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  12. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    my problem is.....I have too many ideas and once I get started developing one, I lose interest and go on to another thing, so nothing gets done. I could spend the rest of my life playing solos over this one tune and never do the same thing twice.
    I did spend a bit of time with some tri tone stuff that I kinda liked so I think im gonna develop that for awhile and mix in some scale stuff and even maybe a tad of penatomic. I just dont know enough about this stuff to even know what sounds good to me and im frustrated. its like im trying to communicate with someone who doesnt speak my language and I dont speak theirs. im really trying, but im afraid I might just have to face the fact that I just dont like jazz. im not giving up yet until im 100% positive though.
     
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  13. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    And that's OK... as the Bard of Avon said famously, "to thine own self be true"...
    but you can still apply things you work on here to the kind of music that you do like,
    as i stated earlier.
    Here's a couple of examples of me NOT playing straight jazz:


    And if you could spend the rest of your life playing solos over Cold Duck Time and never
    do the same thing twice, that would make you at least one heck of an improvisor, even
    if not in the classic jazz style, LOL!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  14. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    I probably couldnt.....im just saying there are so many choices of things to do, and since this music doesnt do anything for me, its hard to decide what I want to do. im relying on theory instead of feeling something. because I dont feel anything. im hoping that changes.
     

  15. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    Maybe you could try writing something that makes you feel, and then applying the theory to what you play over it,
    or analysing what you played that you liked in terms of the theory after the fact instead.
     

  16. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    yeah, I tried that......everything I was playing that sounded good to me was all F dorian. I do remember alot of the jazz theory from when I was studying, so ive got a few tricks up my sleeve. ill come up with something, even if its crap. f min pent sounds the best to me, but hey, its too simple. like my pea brain.
     
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  17. Electgumbo

    Electgumbo Lost Planet Airman Strat-Talk Supporter

    Dec 26, 2010
    Scott La.
    C068B0ED-2B0C-450E-838C-D06E0359E274.jpeg Here’s what I think of when I think about Cold Duck
     
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  18. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    i'm pretty sure that's what Eddie Harris had in mind too!
    From wikipedia:
    The wine was invented by Harold Borgman, the owner of Pontchartrain Wine Cellars in Detroit, in 1937. The recipe was based on a German legend involving Prince Clemens Wenceslaus of Saxony ordering the mixing of all the dregs of unfinished wine bottles with champagne. The wine produced was given the name Kaltes Ende ("cold end" in German), until it was altered to the similar-sounding term Kalte Ente meaning "cold duck".
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  19. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    Well, i think of certain sounds in music like spices in food... some like it plain and simple, and some like it hot and spicy.
    Just because you don't like hot sauce or jalapeno peppers on your corn flakes or even in your chili doesn't mean there's
    anything wrong with you. It's really all about preferences in the end.
    Certain things just don't sound good to you... and i doubt that any amount of theoretical justification will change that,
    and i don't even believe that that needs to change in order for you to be a good musician in your chosen style.
    Stay with what sounds good to you, and be happy... that's what i meant when i said, 'to thine own self be true'.
    But i know you're in it for the challenge, and for the battle.
    Just don't let any of this make you miserable, bang your head against the wall, or smash your guitars, LOL.
    It's supposed to be work, but it's not intended to be torture.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  20. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    too late, lol. ive been the way I am forever.....that aint gonna change. I used to get pissed off and throw my saxophone when I practiced something forever with no results. I mean, I always ended up getting it but the temper has always been there.
    ive decided to use what I know and play what sounds good to me. I might post a few choice steve martin memes in the process, lol.:sneaky:
     
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