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Practical Jazz Workshop #1

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by dogletnoir, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern usa
    ALERT! REFERENCE MATERIAL POST!!!

    A 'voice leading and target tones' approach is more what we've been aiming for so far,
    but there are definitely ways to apply pentatonics to the jazz thing too.

    Don't think that you have to throw out everything you already know...
    you just have to start thinking about things a bit differently.


    Wes Montgomery combines both approaches in his playing so wonderfully.
    So do Kenny Burrell and Grant Green.


     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  2. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    Sure you do. Its one of the first things I showed you.

    CDEFGAB
    1234567

    Take the interval C.
    Add E. That's the third.
    Add G. That's the fifth.
    You just harmonized C with the third and fifth. You also made a C major triad.

    These are the basic chord tones.

    Add a B....What you get?

    Building chords = harmony.

    It's all in that harmonizing the major scale stuff. :)
     
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  3. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    If you put the guitar down and just play the track...can you sing a melodic line over it? If you can...then you're feeling it. Take that feeling to the guitar. Play that melodic line. Add to it, subtract from it, but use that line as the core or touchstone. :)

    The way to feeling something in music happens whether there's an instrument nearby or not. The connection we make to music is melody and rhythm.

    Not scales, not modes, not even theory. I can hum it, and it makes me tap my foot. :D
     
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  4. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    yep, but its everything you guys are telling us NOT to play. minor pent stuff. im trying to get away from that for this stuff. for learning purposes. then, when i learn what im "supposed" to be doing, ill slam a 6 pack, ditch all that stuff, and play the good stuff, lol.;)
    this tune just screams blues stuff at me man....cant help it.
     
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  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    Then play it brother. Listen to that Carlton track. Its blues. Straight up. Little teeny sidebars away from it... but 80% straight blues. :)
     
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  6. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Yes, you taught me this; how to harmonize scales. :) however, I don’t know how to integrate it with chord progression. Arpeggiate chords or play harmonic scale or modes? If I play scales or modes, it would sound like improvising.
     

  7. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    And what are scales made up of? Intervals.

    Intervals build chords by harmonizing the root.

    Intervals build scales.

    Scales ( the seven degrees of the parent scale) build chord progressions. .

    Building chords and chord progressions....is harmony.

    Play thirds against the root in major chords, minor thirds against the root in minor chords.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  8. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Thank you Chris :)

    F7’s third is A; should I play A note only or A Phrygian? Same applies to Bb7, Dmaj7 and Ebmaj7.

    Edit: or focus on the baseline (not the chord itself) and add chord’s tones? 1,3,5,b7
     
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  9. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    Try this:

    Over each chord, try using a combination/arpeggio of the four notes in each chord. Over the F7, add the #9.

    The Eb is a 6/9.
     
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  10. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Thank you once again sir :)
     
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  11. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    The idea is not so much to avoid pentatonics - it's to learn how to use them along with the chord tone approach and the chord/scale approach.

    "it's everything you guys are telling us NOT to play. minor pent stuff."

    That's a temporary issue - so why am I suggesting to get away from the typical blues/rock minor pentatonics?

    Not because they aren't a wonderful useful musical tool. They are, and that's the trouble.

    I just do not want it to be the go-to tool because that's what we as guitar players sort of do - instantly hit the blues/rock licks and fit them to anything.

    Later pentatonics are a great tool for jazz - after you master the chord/tone chord arpeggio method.

    One of the next lessons will be a jazz standard that will not "just scream blues stuff".

    I do understand that playing tunes with a heavy rock/soul/funk/post-Chicago blues feel is tough to not use those pentatonic lecks on. But this is a structured lesson format, and the lesson is to learn the other ways jazz is played.
     

  12. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    For everyone: In my take , I used all three methods. I played pents, chord tones, and a little blast of modal chord/scale.

    The most important thing is to be musical. Running scales sounds like exactly what it is. Playing straight blues pent "licks" can sound tired, because they're ubiquitous. Tell us a story we haven't heard before, from your point of view. :)
     
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  13. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Funny you mention that "tell me a story" bit - that's exactly what some of the old-timers told me, along with

    "Save that s+++ for the practice room, I wanna hear you play...tell me what you had for dinner"

    "Why you wanna sound like someone else? You gonna be on the radio and yo momma ain't gonna know it's you?

    "Why you always play like so-and-so? Ain't you got nothin' of your own?
     
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  14. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    Howard called our lessons "conversations" . My Dad came in once while we were playing and asked "What are you studying?"

    Howard said "We're just talking..."

    :)
     
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  15. fezz parka

    fezz parka Off.... Strat-Talk Supporter

    Apr 21, 2011
    Undisclosed.
    Some fumble fingered pointers:

     

  16. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Notice the whole hand vibrato? just a forethought - and fezz has guitars with trems.

    Thank for posting this - it shows a working version of a lot of the tonal issues we've discussed. In the form, too.

    7ths as used in the two main chords, the notes that move in the changes, voice leading, harmonies, what those Db and Eb chords are like, etc.
     
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  17. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Right now I'm having some not-quite technical issues with making videos. Let's say we're working on it.

    But that is what this thread needs - POV video examples showing the concepts we are discussing. Just like a real jazz guitar lesson.

    Thanks again, fezz.
     
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  18. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    Thank you Chris...

    7D7ACF90-E64E-4AA4-9F59-CD1365B55ECD.gif
     
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  19. Alan L Cole

    Alan L Cole Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    64
    509
    Jan 29, 2018
    NY
    That is too funny Omar! There have been times over the years where I wanted to do that to my guitars out of frustration with my playing. I've since mellowed and such thoughts have passed. Hang in there. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  20. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California

    It was long ago, etc.

    So maybe Chewy smashed a guitar before the Who.

    I'm surprised I'm posting something so silly.

    And it still doesn't make you play better.
     
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