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Practical Jazz Workshop #2

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by davidKOS, May 5, 2018.

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  1. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    I even tried not to "show off" on my example track. I tried to play something that showed the use of the chord arpeggios, scales and a clear melody on the heads.

    No "tricks" to show off - just play the tune and a couple solos.

    But please join the class.
     
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  2. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    So have many great jazz players.

    Parker got gonged by Jo Jones, the Basie drummer.

    Then he hit the woodshed.....;)
     
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  3. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    I've been kicked out of at least one jazz band for being too much of a rock player, and booted from at least one rock band for being too jazzy.

    Go figure.
     
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  4. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    I havent been in the woodshed lately and I kinda dread getting back in it. it takes alot to immerse yourself 100%. im not ready to do that again just yet. because when I do I will ignore everything else. you cant go 99% into the woodshed......it has to be 100. im talkin rocky music at 5am.
     
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  5. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    OK, warning, I'm speaking for myself, not necessarily the other members of the workshop team:

    I've been careful about keeping us on track in this lesson. Yes it is restrictive in many senses, and certainly not part of the "party on" rock mentality of do what you feel is cool.

    However, any players with jazz experience that know their stuff and can explain it - or post their playing to demonstrate it - are more than welcome to crash my lessons. (can't speak for my colleagues )

    I might learn something new. There is more than one way to approach much of this material - if not jazz in general! - and anyone with pro jazz experience could be an asset to the workshop.

    Just a personal comment, folks.
     

  6. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    I don't know, my friend, I think you can 'shed part-time

    30% shedding is better than none.

    One of the Marsalis brothers said that even practicing 5-10 minutes a day regularly is better than no practice or sporadic practice, even if the once-in-a-while session was hours long.

    However I admire your attitude and concept of commitment to music there.
     

  7. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    I can play every day and not go anywhere......im talkin serious woodsheddin man. im an all or nothin kinda guy. cant help it.
    im talkin 8+ hours a day with a routine regimen.....chord theory for an hour, scales, arpeggios, blah blah blah.....then applying it to backing tracks. im prepared though for when my mind gets right.....I have about 30 packs of strings.
    ill be ready soon. but it will prolly be in about 3 weeks, because me pa may take me to ga to get that tele and marshall. so untill then ill enjoy not driving myself crazy and watch the kittens do kitten stuff.
     
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  8. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    sorry I missed this first reading

    If you can play a swing/bop style chord melody solo for the heads, and do 2 jazz solos that are chord-changes based, with no OD but a clean tone (really clean) or acoustic, I still would like to hear it, since that does follow the lesson form.

    Heck, if you can sound like Johnny Smith, go for it and share it with us!

    It still is not exactly "on plan", though.

    And here's the great Louie Shelton - you have heard him play -

    http://louieshelton.com/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Shelton

    doing a Johnny Smith tribute:

     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  9. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    if he can do stuff like that, why not? might light a fire under some booties.
     
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  10. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    47
    Mar 28, 2015
    Latvia
    I am still in the classroom, I did the head-solo-head exercise (I hope I did it right) and now I am trying to do some different things with the song, if I will get through I will post towards the end of the month.
     
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  11. Omar

    Omar Most Inquisitive Junior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Aug 9, 2017
    Marbella, Spain
    @RichieS @CigBurn @Raimonds I'm glad that you're still around. I look forward to listening to your takes and get inspired. I learn from you my friends :)
     
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  12. jjlemon

    jjlemon Strat-Talker

    324
    Jun 27, 2015
    South Wales
    Ok, I'm still working on it. Initially I learnt the song doing chord melody, because that's the way I'd play it on my lonesome. And it's nice to have something to pull out of the bag from time to time. I quickly realised though that it wasn't what was asked for, (Jass Jassington gave me a baleful look) and not only that when I tried to play along with the backing track there were some less than toneful clashes of chords. So, I went back to the basic form asked for at the Lesson head.

    Finally I think I have enough to put together 4 solo sections, ie A B A B. It's rough and I'll try and get it recorded soon. I found the chord melody work I had done wasn't totally without benefit. as some of the rundowns, passing notes and alternative chords were reusable to some extent.

    One thing I've noticed is that working on one tune, I hope in a focused manner, I've started to hear parts, usually not long after I've woken up, a bit like a mutating earworm, and so far I've managed to incorporate a few of those into my solo. Learning, neural rewiring, so much fun.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  13. fezz parka

    fezz parka R.P.M. (Retired Professional Musician) Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
    Like Nowheresville, man.

    29njqh.jpg

    That's because the majority of the melody is in the basic circle progression/chords. The rest of them are a pinky away. :)
     
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  14. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Unless you are using a lot of altered or substituted chords your chord melody should work fine with the "vanilla" changes in the backing track.

    Just like if we were at a guitar workshop, you sitting next to me, I play rhythm for your solos.

    Harmonically, it should work.

    Which is why I use some chord fingerings with barres that leave the 4th finger available. See earlier posts on the m7b5 and 7b9 chord shapes.
     
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  15. CigBurn

    CigBurn Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jun 22, 2014
    The Shed
    Still working on combining/fumbling some chord forms with fingerings to get a less sterile less single line thing working. But quick played a couple runs through the lead line to at least show I'm working on it as I can.



    On the chords, I've been trying to do it two different ways. The first more down stroke strumming like David did it and second plucking the chord notes simultaneously more like Doglet did it. I find it easier a bit to make it musical with some lead fingerings using the latter method and figure the strumming would be more appropriate as comping along. Am I thinking about that reasonably at least?
     

  16. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    cool melody, sounds good, I assume any variations are deliberate, not mistakes. Overall I dig your phrasing a lot :D

    looking forward to the solos.

    Yes you are thinking about it on the right track.

    First, it's good to learn to play both swing 4/4 rhythm and bop style comping - as a guitar player you will be required to know both styles for jazz gigs. Sometimes you might use both styles on the same gig.

    When I did my loop pedal solo jazz guitar act, I would mostly use the 4/4 swing pattern as I played a lot of older tunes, but would switch to various Latin patterns, fusion-funk, or bop-style comping w/bass line as needed.
     
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  17. CigBurn

    CigBurn Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jun 22, 2014
    The Shed
    The variations are intentional, while trying to remain true to the melody as I hear it. Lots of lilt in the track which makes playing it 100% straight musical Sominex (A sleeping pill brand for any non-americans :)). If I play along with something like the Tony Bennett version it takes on an entirely different character. I think thats one of the things I like about this tune is its potential emotional variety.

    I didn't want to do any work on the solo really until I'd also gotten the comping down. While practicing the comping I can hear melody lines in there, but don't want to undercook my work on the rhythm guitar and shortchange myself by letting it distract me. I'll get there, just trying to get the foundation down.
     
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  18. jjlemon

    jjlemon Strat-Talker

    324
    Jun 27, 2015
    South Wales
    Fezz, Jass Jassington better be good at holding his breath, this might take a while.

    Though saying that, I've been trying to loosen my solo up a bit, it felt a bit stilted, not free flowing, so somewhere between concentrated study of the chords and arpeggios and an all out noodle around, is where I want it to be. As I said in an earlier post soloing is not something I find easy, much rather play the chords and get funky with the rhythm. So I might just go for it at some point, and hope I don't get lost, which happens a lot.


    I had a few clashes to begin with, just poor choices, then realised it wasn't what was being asked for anyway.
    But the main clash was on the Fmaj7 bass rundown, initially I passed through C which sounded a bit too 'churchy', if that makes sense. And it didn't fit well, a C# and a c#dim7 works much better then a quick E11 -> E7b5 (from Mickey Baker) to the Am7/A7. That was better but still too cluttered, and not focusing on the task as it was defined. So it's there for me to play around with at a later date. There were a few other excursions which didn't fit as well, so they were dropped. I do like playing chords and this exercise has got me finger picking again. But it's soloing where I struggle, along with sight reading and sticking to the melody, it seems... more practice needed.
     
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  19. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    So, I can play the melody fine I think (yes, I will record and post) because I know the tune and I know what to play, I've heard the song hundreds of times, even before this. I get lost when soloing though, it's like my mind goes off in one direction and bring my fingers with it and the song continues. Before long I no longer know where I am or how many bars I've got until the next turnaround. I can focus on the backing track but that's a lot like thinking and the advice was to just play :) Any good suggestions?
     
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  20. fezz parka

    fezz parka R.P.M. (Retired Professional Musician) Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    59
    Apr 21, 2011
    Like Nowheresville, man.
    Yes. Simplify. Play arps for the progression with a few neighbor tones. This will help you stay focused on the form. If you can follow the form with the melody, you can follow it during your solo section. Pay attention. :)
     
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