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Practical Jazz Workshop #3 - Out Of Nowhere

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by dogletnoir, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. hawk_eye

    hawk_eye Strat-Talk Member

    15
    Mar 28, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Hi @duzie. I found a Cm6 voicing with the root on the 6th string at the 8th fret leads nicely into the descending chromatic B-Bb-A line along the 6th string at the 7th-6th-5th frets @dogletnoir describes up-thread.

    I used a shape from Micky Baker's book - it's similar grip to the m7 shape so you can play the alternative change from Cm6 to Bm7 that @davidKOS mentioned (rather than Cm6 to G/B as written) more easily.

    Let me know if you're interested and I'll post it.

    cheers,
    S
     
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  2. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    There are of course many chord shapes that could be used.

    I offer the "old school" rhythm style (and similar enough to Gypsy jazz style ) voicings I use for those measures.

    Bm7

    string 6 fret 7, string 4 fret 7, string 3 fret 7 (B, A, D notes)

    Bo7

    string 6 fret 6, string 4 fret 5, string 3 fret 6 (Bb, G, Db)

    Am7 - same shape as the Bm7

    Ab7 (implied b5)

    String 6 fret 4, string 4 fret 4, String 3 fret 5 (Ab, Gb, C)

    GM7

    String 6 fret 3, string 4 fret 4, string 3 fret 4 (G, F#, B)

    Perhaps this helps.
     
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  3. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    This is the Cm6 I use:

    Cm6

    String 6, fret 8, string 4 fret 7, string 3 fret 8 (C, A, Eb)
     
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  4. duzie

    duzie Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    850
    May 1, 2016
    northwest nj
    Thanks hawk_eye please post it.
    I believe I attempted to use that voicing then couldn’t figure out how to follow it with the B with a G in the bass
    Alternative change you say , so much to learn !
     
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  5. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    BTW, that Cm6 is really just the Am7 chord from the previous measures - but now with a b5 and the m3rd in the bass:

    Am7 - A C E G

    Am7b5 - A C Eb G

    Am7b5/C - C EG G A = Cm6 chord.

    just to show the relationships between the chords.

    The chart could have written Am7b5/C instead of Cm6, but Cm6 is easier to read.:)

    It also functions as a pivot chord between the home key of G and the implied Am, by being the altered IV chord in G (iv6 instead) and the altered version of Am. Mostly it's a way of getting a cool sound harmonically.
     
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  6. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    For the sheet version I play as follows (high e is string 1)

    Gmaj7: s1 f2, s2 f3, s3 f4, s4 f5. I bar the strings with my index finger as that will allow for very economical movement between the Gmaj7, Bb-7, Eb7, Gmaj7 and B-7.

    So the Bb-7 is first 5 strings barred, s2 f2, s4 f3.

    Eb7 is s1 f2, s2 f1, s3 f2, s4 f1. Also barred.

    B-7 is same as Bb-7 but a fret up.

    You can also add the 6 string to the barre under your index finger on the Bb-7 and B-7. Similarly you can add the 5 string to the barre on the Gmaj7 and the Eb7. This will give you the 5th on top.
     
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  7. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    Practicing and watching the BBQ at the same time. Slightly off topic, sorry :)

    1528560504506.jpg
     
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  8. hawk_eye

    hawk_eye Strat-Talk Member

    15
    Mar 28, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Looks like @davidKOS has beaten me to it!

    I play Cm6 like the lazy rocker I am - as shown below but with my 3rd finger rather than my 4th:
    [​IMG]

    That leads to Bm7. As I said, it's almost the same grip; everything moves down 1 fret to B but you move your 3rd finger to play the D string as well as the G, B & E at the 7th fret.

    If you want to go down the G/B rather than the Bm7 route, try playing it as 7557xx (3rd finger on the low E, bar the A & D strings with 1st finger, 4th finger for the G string).

    You can then move from G/B to the Bb* as @davidKOS wrote it out (6x56xx).

    The nice thing with that G/B to Bm7 move is your 2nd finger is practically hovering over the 6th fret when you're playing the G/B, so that's an easy change. The A & D strings are still under the 1st finger, so no change there. it's really only the G string that might catch you out, switching from your 4th finger to your 3rd finger as you move down from the 7th to the 6th fret.

    As an added bonus, your 2nd finger will mute the A string, whether you want it to or not!

    <whispers> to make things even easier, you can play the next Am7 using your thumb on the low E string and bar the D, G, B & E strings with your already-in-place first finger. But don't tell the jazzers I said that or I'll get run out of this thread on a rail. </whispers>

    Ahem.
    S
     
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  9. RichieS

    RichieS Strat-Talker

    Age:
    38
    253
    Sep 1, 2016
    The City
    Here's my week 1 take. Slow and swinging is tough.

     
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  10. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    That's the same chord indeed - but the old school way only uses the notes on strings 6, 4 and 3....the Gypsy jazzers will use more notes on string 5 and 2, etc. Bop players when comping will use all sorts of voicings.

    But in practice I use the chord voiced on strings 6, 4 and 3 and the chord voiced as above on strings 4-1 for the most part. I rarely play this full barre Cm6 in my jazz playing.


    I try to keep as many fingers on the same strings as possible to keep those changes (grips) and fingerings going smoothly. Alternately, I try to make the finger changes minimal and very easy.

    I do use the LH thumb sometimes!:p:D

    Only on the low E string and only when it is more logical than changing a lot of fingers.
     
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  11. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Thanks for posting a sample version.

    Notice the use of the ascending motif and development in the solos. As always, note the use of the chord tones/arpeggios, and when scalar material is used to fill gaps.
     
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  12. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California


    My sample version, from a live gig a year or so ago, with loop pedal, using chord voicings as I showed earlier.

    Note the use of scales and arpeggios...same old story.
     
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  13. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    On the right track...looking forward to more.
     
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  14. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    good again, swinging!

    How are you with the chords and soloing? again looking forward to more!
     
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  15. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    That sounds good. Nice chords there in the beginning part; good melody and cool sound...SC Strat?

    I'm also looking forward to your solos on this tune.
     
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  16. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    You're getting the swing part. that takes time, and there is more than one way to swing.

    harmonics...:thumb::D

    Solos off to good start...nice double stops, ideas, you seem to hear the changes well enough.

    Very good turnaround at 2:20 or so

    Next chorus has a clever use of some more bluesy ideas...then some pretty chords, that descending lick.

    Overall a fine effort.

    My suggestion now is to get a bit more "smooth" on the swing lines, and to add a few more triplets and 16ths to the overall rhythmic flow. I guess that's what you were talking about!

    good job.
     
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  17. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    47
    Mar 28, 2015
    Latvia
    chords are fine, it took some time to memorise finger positions and get used to shapes. btw, backing chords are played by me :) solo will come, maybe later today, need some time when everything is quite around.
     
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  18. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    Any tips for connecting arpeggios in practice? I get the idea of using target notes but as usual it's difficult for me to put into practice. It tends to sound like I jump between isolated phrases rather than play a melody.
     
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  19. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    47
    Mar 28, 2015
    Latvia
    I am not an expert, but I got from the previous songs that you need to lead to the next chord with your arp or melody and not wait for the next chord. This is quite difficult for me, maybe because I play some kind of rock/pop/blues phrasing and for simple chords it usually doesnt matter where you start and end. But maybe I am wrong and more knowledgable members can shed the light.
     
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  20. Cerb

    Cerb Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    38
    Jan 22, 2016
    Sweden
    I'm not fluent enough but at the moment I don't really know how to correct it.
     
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