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Practical Jazz Workshop #3 - Out Of Nowhere

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by dogletnoir, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Please refer to my or dogletnoir's teaching example for how that is done....

    OK, so how do I connect everything?

    What leads from one chord to another?

    That's where scales do come into play, as the natural connection between chords in the same scale are the notes of the scale itself - the ones in the chords and the ones NOT in the chords - those pitches can be used to connect chord tones.

    As for leading to the chord, you can hit a chord tone as a melodic resolution right on the chord change - or you can anticipate or delay that resolution for various effects.

    "It tends to sound like I jump between isolated phrases rather than play a melody"

    Sing what you are going to play - it helps connect the melodic content.

    Also be aware of the rock player "licks" mentality - a good solo is not a collection of licks, as that can sound just as you describe, like isolated phrases.

    "it usually doesn't matter where you start and end"

    I've told students notes and phrases have definite beginnings and definite endings.

    Just like speaking - we begin a phrase, and we end phrases; phrases connect into sentence, to express our ideas, and we end the sentence. We connect sentences into paragraphs (or monologues orally) and so on.

    So it is with a good jazz improv. It has phrases, sentences, paragraphs, and tells a story.

    That sounds abstract and it is - but one needs to have that idea in mind when attempting to learn to improvise at a level needed to enjoy playing jazz.

    More as questions get asked.

    PS

    I do not want you all to to listen to my recorded track for the listen counts, to bolster my ego, or for praise.

    I want you guys to hear what I do on a live gig with this tune.

    It will help you understand where I am coming from and although certainly not a world classic solo that's going to wind up transcribed on one of the jazz guitar websites, it does demonstrate what I am describing.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  2. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    47
    Mar 28, 2015
    Latvia
    My first full length track, complete with heads and solo, hope I am on right track.

     
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  3. montemerrick

    montemerrick spiritual birthday, April 1 Strat-Talk Supporter

    i'ver got to stop posting one take quickies but i'm barely home these days and i don't have time for getting it right with the red light on... so i practice and then squeeze in a quick attempt at recording... i wish i had more time, but this is the baby season where eeryday new problems out of nowhere. (actually somewhere, in fact the only where, the real wild world.)

    in any case, here's my take on 32 bars of just chords.

     
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  4. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    May 1, 2016
    northwest nj
    I hear ya Thrup’ny !
    4th weekend in a row with my grandchildren.
    Today’s event - soapbox derby race
    Somehow I was designated as being the pit crew for 2 of them racing .
    I think it really means I’ll be pulling the cars back up the hill lol.
    No practice time today it will probably be an all day long event!
     
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  5. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern us
    Definitely on the right track!
    Great job on the melody sections, and the soloing is coming along nicely.
    :thumb::thumb:
     
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  6. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern us
    Those chords are sounding purr-ty good, monte.
    Keep at 'em, and GL with baby season!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  7. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern us
    It is now officially week 2 of PJW #3, folks! :)
    Since we already have the Real Book lead sheet as part of the lesson plan,
    we might as well start working on that version if you feel it's appropriate at this point.
    You will notice a few additional chords now as well as some alterations/extensions to
    the basic chords from the week 1 YT backing track.
    If the tune was called at a jazz gig, this would most likely the version you would be playing,
    since the Real Book is still the common ground for much of the jazz community
    (FWIW, i know that the pros and cons of this can certainly be debated, but it still is what it is).

    This week's backing track will also still continue to emphasize trying to get a good swinging
    feel at a slower tempo, with typical jazz trio accompaniment of piano, bass, and drums.


    You may also feel free to keep working on the week 1 material.
    i'm just trying to keep it interesting... and challenging.
    :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  8. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    I highly suggest it!

    re: Real Book lead sheet

    This is the version from the last pre-Hal Leonard edition. The new "legal version has slightly altered the changes.

    I like the older version - this one - better.
     
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  9. Raimonds

    Raimonds Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    47
    Mar 28, 2015
    Latvia
    I used this one for my backing, though I think about altering some of the chords, if that is allowed :)

    Screen Shot 2018-06-10 at 17.51.49.png
     
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  10. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    That will work. Mostly. I know this version from certain fake books.

    However, note that the Real book version does not use the Dm7b5 or the Bm7b5 both unnecessary and likely taken from the published piano version; and this version uses the Am7-D7 in the 1st ending; RB version uses D7sus which is more colorful.

    Also, instead of the melodic descent in the 2nd ending from the high E to C to B and the use of the Am7 to Cm6 chord, this version uses a single B note and an F7#11 chord, which makes less harmonic sense than a Cm6.

    Finally, a plain Bb chord instead of the Bbo7 on the turnaround?

    After looking at it, please try the RB version! :);)

    Altering chords is allowed - in fact re-harmonization and chord substitution is a very popular jazz device - but try to have the book changes down before you change them.
     
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  11. dogletnoir

    dogletnoir Most Honored Senior Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    northeastern us
    Here's a take with the week 2 backing:

    It's another fun one to play to, imo.
    Sorry for the low level recording... turn it up, and use headphones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018

  12. montemerrick

    montemerrick spiritual birthday, April 1 Strat-Talk Supporter

    sorry for the horrible static in my chords only take above... my cat is a jealous beast who chews cables when the guitar is taking his place in my lap. right now every one i have is perforated along its length... fang holes let in all the stray electroids - and i'm a good unforeseen windfall away from buying new ones. ugh.
     

  13. RichieS

    RichieS Strat-Talker

    Age:
    38
    331
    Sep 1, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Kind of slow at work today.

    I was imagining the fretboard and writing out three string arps for Maj 7 chords. Starting on the root, third, fifth, and seventh. I circled the roots, hopefully I didn’t botch anything.

    EDIT: I botched the last roman numeral; it should be an VIII - not a X
    EDIT: No no... I had it right the first time, the X is definitely correct (F and A are at the 10th fret on the 3rd and 2nd string respectively)

    I rarely use the shapes that start on the 5th and 7th, so now I have something to mess around with when I get home.

    IMG_1087.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  14. hawk_eye

    hawk_eye Strat-Talk Member

    16
    Mar 28, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Well it's a Fender and it's technically a single coil...

    upload_2018-6-11_19-40-48.png


    The signal chain is Mustang > DI box > interface > Reaper > S-Gear.

    I bought it late last year with no real expectations, just to have something small I could keep next to the computer. Turns out it's an excellent guitar with it's own voice that seems well suited to playing with clean/jazzy sounds.

    Back to the music. When I charted out the song as @fezz parka suggested, I could see that there were a few chords that don't fit in the harmonised G major scale. Some of the posts have discussed these differences and mentioned substitutions, secondary dominants etc. That's given me a couple of questions:
    1. If I can identify chords that are not diatonic, is there a simple way to work out why/how they have been substituted/changed?
    2. If a chord has been substituted, would you also look for scale tones from a substituted scale rather than the original key?
    Re. my solos, for now I'm just trying to learn some more arpeggios that follow the chords and filling in the gaps between them by trial and error (mostly error). I do want to post a few more works-in-progress this time around, though a full bandstand take might be a while in arriving.

    cheers,
    S
     
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  15. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    1. Why is often a question for the composer.

    How to work out the substituted chords depends on the type of substitution or alteration. Are they tritone subs? Passing chords? In the home key or out of it?

    2. Yes. Any chord outside of your home key requires that chord tones of that new chord and the scale that the chord is derived from.

    Often this means a new key area or tonal center.

    Example - the E7b9 chords are found in the A harmonic minor scale.

    A B C D E F G# A

    E G# B D F - every note in the scale except the A and C.

    As a matter of fact, one of the things I look for in terms of knowing when I am moving out of one tonal center to another is the presence of chords not in the current key.
     

  16. hawk_eye

    hawk_eye Strat-Talk Member

    16
    Mar 28, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Thanks. Hmmm...more food for thought.

    S
     
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  17. heltershelton

    heltershelton ASKED TO LEAVE THE STAGE Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    all im doing is fooling myself. i have tried to like jazz.....really hard. i mean there are a few songs i like but for the most part i just dont like it. i understand the theory and all that but i just have to accept the fact that im a rocker through and through.
    every time i sit down to work with this stuff i find myself quickly losing interest and end up not even wanting to play. i gotta like something if im gonna play it. life is too short to play stuff i dont like. i thought maybe if i got older i might like it but i feel the same way about it as i did 25 years ago. a lot of you already know this about me. anyway, i wont be participating in these workshops anymore. good luck to the rest of you. playing the stuff doesnt make me happy. and truthfully i hate most of it, lol.
     

  18. duzie

    duzie Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    May 1, 2016
    northwest nj
    I understand where you’re coming from helter!
     
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  19. davidKOS

    davidKOS Musician, Composer, Teacher Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Perhaps it's not for you, like certain styles of music (punk, rap, hip-hop, modern country, etc.) are not for me.

    Remember something like less than 5% of music audiences like jazz.

    You are not alone.

    There is jazz I do not particularly like, for that matter. :D:sneaky::rolleyes:;)
     
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  20. Eoraptor1

    Eoraptor1 Senior Stratmaster

    Aug 4, 2008
    Niagara Falls, NY
    Dave,

    I've heard that 5% figure before. Where does it come from?

    JAMES
     
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