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Discussion in 'Amp Input - Normal or Bright' started by Achyskic, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    OK...I have to ask: How many amps have you built?
     
  2. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    Built zero, heavily modded several. My soldering skills are pretty good, I can follow directions, and know who to ask questions. Also I own 7 multimeters, a couple bias probes.
     
  3. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    It's just that a Deluxe Reverb is a relatively complicated build. Study the layout and schematic really well before you decide.
     
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  4. RJ Squirrel

    RJ Squirrel Senior Stratmaster

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    ^^^^+1

    If you got a deal on the amp, put in new speaker, new output tubes, and have it biased. Play it for a while to see if you like it. If you do like it, keep it as is until the filter caps go south and it needs servicing. That would be the time to consider a new board. Like Fezz said, it is a complicated build with many opportunities for errors to occur. If it turns out that you don't like the amp, sell it and get something else. You will be dollars ahead. There is nothing to be gained by replacing the circuit that is in the amp now.
     
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  5. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Here's my advice. If you're interested in building, buy a cheapass ss amp with an 8 inch speaker. Gut it. Build a 5f1 Champ in it. If it works, buy a bigger cheapass ss amp with a cab for a 12. Gut it. Build a 5e3 in it. After you've done both of those, and they both work...then tackle a more difficult build.
     
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  6. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    I understand what your saying, but is it more complicated than say a 5e3 or just more steps? Why waste time and money on builds I have no interest in? A small parts kit for the DR from mojo tone is $250. If it doesn’t work out I could put it back together with the pcb board and with the added $250. I would still be under what a used DR is bringing.
     
  7. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Yes it's double, if not triple the amount of work. Look at it this way: The 5f1 is the Wright Brothers plane. The 5e3 is a Sopwith Camel. The DR is a Boeing 707.

    5E3_Layout._Annotated_Signal.gif

    Deluxe-Reverb-AB763-bright-cap-layout.png


    To learn what you are doing.
    To gain experience.

    Like anything, start small and work your way up. It's logical.

    There is a very good chance that the original pc board will be buggered. It's major surgery.

    Building is not modding. One mistake, and you could stop your heart.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  8. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    I understand I really do. I also agree its triple the work, but no more complicated, just more of the same thing. What I meant by modding is replace and rewire tube sockets replace filter caps, replace multi caps on pcb board amps. Repair broken eyelets and circuit board traces. Biasing amps, adding bias trim pots to amps that didn’t come with them. I am aware of discharging amps before digging in, I like my heart ticking.
     
  9. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    No, not really. It's much more complicated. Three times more complicated. If you don't see that, then there's nothing more I can say. :D

    The last couple of amps I built were Bassmans. 5e6a and 5f6a.

    I can build a Champ or 5e3 in a day. Bassman takes at least two days. It's more complicated.
     
  10. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    Sure the DR has more parts than a 5e3, but does more parts equal more complicity ? More time consuming, yes, more expensive, yes. More room for errors, yes. But how does any of this make it more complicated ? It’s just doing more of the same thing done to a5e3, not something extra that makes it harder that I can see. I don’t see time involved as increased complexity. Is changing plugs on a 6 cylinder more complicated than a 4 cylinder? No, it takes longer but it’s basically doing the same just more so.
     
  11. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Look at the circuit. It has reverb. Driver and recovery stages. It has tremolo. It is fixed bias instead of cathode biased. It has a long tailed phase inverter. If you can't see the circuit as being more complicated, then with all due respect, you have no idea what you're looking at.
     
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  12. fezz parka

    fezz parka The Return of the Red Helmet Strat-Talk Supporter

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    5e3 schematic:

    deluxe_5e3_schem (1).gif

    Deluxe reverb schematic:

    Deluxe-Reverb-AA763-AB763-changes.png

    Do they look like more of the same, or is something different about them?
     
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  13. rolandson

    rolandson Most Honored Senior Member

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    Yes.
    Build an amp. But start small-ish. Learn as you go.
     
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  14. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    The difference I see is what I have already pointed out. Yes there are a lot more components. However, what on the DR is harder and more complicated to preform? Is there a special trick only experienced amp builders can do? A special soldering trick to preform? To me it’s alot more of following directions and soldering in parts. No new special skill needed. If I am wrong please point out the special skill that takes several
    Amps under ones belt to do. How many DR have you personally built? I will agree with this... because of the added components and circuits there is a greater chance for errors and harder to trouble shoot. But this doesn’t make the build more complicated.
     
  15. Cerb

    Cerb Most Honored Senior Member

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    It depends. Will you be building from a kit or from the schematic? That will make a huge difference. Even if you're building from a kit it will depend a lot on the quality of the kit, how well the drawings are laid out and to what detail and how much you're supposed to figure out on your own. If the kit contains exact step by step instructions and everything is well planned and laid out I would agree that the added complexity is in the number of components and in the risk of making mistakes. Anything less than perfect step by step instructions is a game changer and I'd agree with @fezz parka

    EDIT: And when you do make a mistake that you need to find and correct during your set to work phase, the added complexity of the circuitry and number of components is a big, big deal.
     
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  16. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    It would be from a step by step kit... I agree when trouble shooting the complexity increases.
     
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  17. Cerb

    Cerb Most Honored Senior Member

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    I guess my point is this: Make sure it's a good kit with lots of documentation. With the extra complexity of that amp an instruction like "use a white wire to connect capacitor A to resistor X" may not be good enough. You would expect the instructions to tell you exactly how and where to route all the wires in order to minimize interference and EMC issues.

    Skickat från min CLT-L29 via Tapatalk
     
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  18. RJ Squirrel

    RJ Squirrel Senior Stratmaster

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    There is a lot more to it than soldering components together on a board. Lead dress is a real concern that is often overlooked. Poorly routed wiring can lead to oscillations and instability in the amp. Compare the wiring of black face fender amps to their later silver face counter parts and then look at the tone sucking shunt capacitors that had to be added to stabilize the circuits.

    Can you read a schematic? I've seen a lot of guys try to build an amp going by the layout diagram and miss connections or make a connection to the wrong point. The ability to read a schematic will be a needed skill when you have to troubleshoot the amp to get it to work properly. Very very few amateur built amps fire up and work perfectly on the first start up. I don't understand what benefit you expect to achieve by replacing the pcb that's in the amp now. The best case scenario is that you successfully replace the pcb and the amp works and sounds the same as before. In a less than best case scenario, the amp will not function properly or sound as good as before. IMO, this is a high risk/low reward venture.
     
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  19. Achyskic

    Achyskic Senior Stratmaster

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    I agree 100% it’s alot more than just soldering components. I just used that as an example, but seriously is lead dress different in an 5e3 vs DR? I doubt it, there is no doubt more to do but no more complicated. Yes I can read a schematic. And if the amp doesn’t fire up perfectly there are s lot of good knowledge people on forums more than happy to assist. Many will disagree with you that best case scenario is it will sound the same.
     
  20. Tone Guru

    Tone Guru Senior Stratmaster

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    Complexity

    Any system, electronic or otherwise, with a greater number of active components is by definition more complex.
     
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