Warmoth.com ad space available darrenriley.com Amplified Parts Lollar Pickups ad space available Reilander Pickups

Warmoth.com ad space available darrenriley.com Amplified Parts Lollar Pickups Guitar Pickups Reilander Pickups

Warmoth.com ad space available darrenriley.com Amplified Parts Lollar Pickups Guitar Pickups Reilander Pickups

Join Strat-Talk Today

Strat identification

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by micoconnell, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  2. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Well that's where we are going to have to agree to disagree. Everyone else I have ever discussed Tokais with agrees that the L serial numbers are not sequential & are not far short of random. I thought that maybe you had come up with some new & compelling evidence, but that isn't the case. And the information I collated from the ten examples I have owned & photographed convinces me that there is no coherent pattern to the L serial numbers.

    Sorry, but I am not convinced by the "pattern" theory, as the evidence suggests otherwise.

    As for the Goldstar in that link, with the exception of the serial number, what else is it that we can see that confirms it's from 1985 specifically? I can't see anything. The fact that he has shown a pic of a Springy script decal suggests that the seller is guessing!

    Lots of people quote 1984 or 1985 dates with great confidence when trying to sell Tokais. I don't do this as I would rather be a little vague but accurate rather than very specific but misleading. These are Tokais - the best you can hope for is a vague date to within a year or two. Apart from anything else, there is no need to try to be more specific than that.
     
  3. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    As a matter of interest what is the serial number of your 83 rock and roll fanatics E equipped ST 80?
     
  4. Forum Sponsor Sponsored posting

  5. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    The red Goldie has V1 pickups,substituted when the Us ran out ,post 84 approx.
     
  6. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    It's a seven digit number - no L. Just another feature that doesn't fit the "Tokai rule book". Not that I believe that Tokai ever had a rule book....

    What s/n does your ST80 have?
     
  7. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Oh yes I accept that the pickups he tells us about suggest post 1984, but there are no pics of them.

    More analysis of the stuff I went through recently. These numbers are not sequential!

    I've already mentioned the two L09XXX numbers - they had Us.
    The next in "sequence" is L10XXX - VI pickups
    Then L14XXX - VI pickups
    Then L15XXX - U pickups
    Then L21XXX - VI pickups
    Then L24XXX & L30XXX - unstamped pickups

    If there is a pattern there, it is too vague & with too many exceptions to be considered any kind of reliable way of dating the guitars. A lot of the things about Tokais from this period seem to be fairly random. A big bucket full of stamped neckplates from which assembly staff grabbed neckplates at random seems the most likely explanation, as far as I can see.

    I really cannot imagine a situation where Mr. Tokai toured the factory on New Years Eve each year & ensured that "last year's serial numbers" were removed from use & destroyed before January started.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  8. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    "I really cannot imagine a situation where Mr. Tokai toured the factory on New Years Eve each year & ensured that "last year's serial numbers" were removed from use & destroyed before January started."Apparently it was his favourite occupation next to watching Sumo!My own ST80 is L113##...........but it has Tokai stamped tuners.....Go figure!
     
  9. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Was Sumo the bloke who selected the neckplates from the bucket?
     
    Finalprospec likes this.
  10. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    I reckon that simply adds to my theory that various Tokai parts were assembled in a manner not that far removed from random!

    "Rules? We don't need no goddamned rules here at Tokai!"
     
  11. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    Yes enormous fat and violent bloke,he was later found to have been a serial killer!
     
  12. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    I have no doubt that the slab board Goldstar ST80 necks were originally some kind of Springy or maybe ASTs which also had slab boards.
     
  13. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    If that's so, how come there is no similarity between my 1980 ST80 (noticeable V neck) & my Goldstar ST80 which has a neck fatter than any Goldstar ST50 & with a very rounded profile?

    And anyway, there weren't any slab board Springys, were there?
     
  14. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
  15. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
  16. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    Why? I like theorizing that`s why!!!!!!.Your guitar`s body` could possibly be a nitro finished Springy as the serial no suggests.Why would they start a whole new production line and spray booth for just a handful of nitro finished ST 80s Goldstars?But who knows eh!
     
  17. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    Does your ST 80`s serial number indicate a late Springy?The Sen body says Springy to me.
     
  18. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    I think that my question was more along the lines of "Why did Tokai need to go to all the bother of making a handful of ST80s & finishing them in nitro?" Why bother?

    No, it can't do - a post 1981/2 RW board Springy would have an L serial number! Why mine has a 7 digit number I have no idea. And why do some (all?) Goldstar ST60s have 4 digit serial numbers?

    o_O

    As for my ST80 having a sen body, how do you know since it's a solid colour?
     
  19. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    I have seen under the hood shortly after you bought it.It`s certainly Sen. Maple Goldstar ST 60s have a V neck,2 piece bodies,round string tree and hand wound E pickups and are supposedly based on a 54 to 56 Strat.St 50s are supposed to mimic the 56 to 60 model.Rosewood necked St 60s also have the posher E pickups,two piece bodies but have a C neck and L serial number.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  20. Finalprospec

    Finalprospec Strat-Talk Member

    74
    Dec 9, 2014
    U.K.
    Incidentally my maple 78 Springy ST 60 has Es and a C neck which was the norm till the eighties I believe.Tokai made Goldstar ST 80s as a top of the range guitar and subsequently charged another 30,00 yen for the more desirable to many and more costly to apply nitro finish and hand wound pickups.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  21. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Why do you describe the E pickups as "hand wound"? I have never seen any information that mentions how the pickups were wound. Or even who they were made by.
     

Share This Page