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STRING TREE QUESTION

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by brians, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. brians

    brians Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    48
    904
    Nov 28, 2016
    ZA
    How come a Fender has one, and a low cost Bullet has two, I've been trying to understand this , so can the wizards help ?? 1515005718292.jpg
     

  2. heltershelton

    heltershelton ROCKIN FOREVER Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    mia standards used to have 2 up until sometime in the early 2000's. look at these two almost identical strats.....the one on the right is a 2010, the one one the left has a neck from 98/99.
    twins.jpg
     
    fattboyzz likes this.

  3. brians

    brians Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    48
    904
    Nov 28, 2016
    ZA
    Yes and the reason is........
     

  4. heltershelton

    heltershelton ROCKIN FOREVER Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    well, i guess its because they started using staggered tuning pegs........but on the mim's i guess they figured that a string tree on the D and G string wasnt needed because the string angle is pretty much ok. i dont know about the squiers.
     
    SSJR likes this.

  5. heltershelton

    heltershelton ROCKIN FOREVER Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    i gotta say though.....that is an excellent question.
     
    brians likes this.

  6. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    42
    Feb 8, 2011
    Raleigh NC
    It's the staggered tuners and the angle of the headstock and the nut. The bullets tend to have sloppier nuts, headstock angles and tuners so they need 2 trees to keep enough pressure on the strings over the nut. The AM Std only needed 1 once they got the staggered tuners going. When all those things are done correctly you don't need any string tress like my EJ Signature:

    EJ Headstock.jpg
     

  7. trapdoor2

    trapdoor2 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    61
    577
    Oct 25, 2017
    Nawth Alabama
    String trees are 'additive mass' compensators. When small amounts of mass are added to the ends of a vibrating structure, they change the position of the tonal nodes. This is primarily done to compensate for the differences in the specific gravity of the disparate structures of a bolt-on or "assembled' structure. Each piece of wood in the major components has a different specific gravity, which must be compensated for. No such compensation is required for neck-thru or 'glue in' structures.

    Oddly enough, this 'additive mass' has an inverse relationship with the tuners. Staggered tuners mass less than standard ones...but that loss of mass is evidently a tipping point and the compensation factor requires even less mass on the headstock, thus no string trees. Standard tuners almost always require two string trees but with lighter necks, sometimes only need one.

    Otherwise, string trees are simply decorative. If you have problems with nut breakover angle, your headstock angle needs adjustment. Ask your local luthier to make that adjustment for you, not a job for amateurs!

    ...:whistling:
     
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  8. heltershelton

    heltershelton ROCKIN FOREVER Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jun 5, 2013
    Not Florida
    i was gonna say that but you beat me to it.
     

  9. brians

    brians Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    48
    904
    Nov 28, 2016
    ZA
    Good answer, but the pic I posted, no staggered tuners on either mim or bullet , no luthier required, both are excellent players, don't have any issues with them, dont think there is a real difference in the neck angles, just wanted to know why there is the reason, some Strats have one , others have two?
     

  10. brians

    brians Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    48
    904
    Nov 28, 2016
    ZA
    Unless.....the mass of the rosewood fretboard changes the angle of the string to the tuner, where the all maple doesn't?.........
     

  11. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Squier-a-holic Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    42
    Apr 19, 2014
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    That has more to do with looks than functionality....vintage style models or vintage inspired etc will have 1....same with modern MIA Strats and MIM Standards and vintage types.....modern ones including many Squier have 2

    Fender went from 1 to 2 string trees in about 1972 or 1973
     

  12. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    42
    Feb 8, 2011
    Raleigh NC
    Fender does not have angled headstocks like Gibson so the trees were needed to get the angle right over the nut. Is your luthier angling your Strat headstock for you? With the staggered tuners it helps with the D&G but the e&B were still too shallow so they kept that tree. When they designed the EJ they went through several headstock tilts to get it just right so no tree was needed. The EJ has a slight angle and thins towards the ball end to allow the longer strings to be pulled down further. As far as I have ever read or heard the EJ is the only Strat that has an intentionally angled headstock.

    In 28 years of playing Strats I have never once read or heard your explanation of trees being there for mass. Also per your statement, "No such compensation is required for neck-thru or 'glue in' structures" then explain why a bolt on neck PRS does not need string trees the same as it's set neck counterparts? Or an M&T join Martin and a dovetail join Martin one both do not need trees? It's because the angled headstock (which BTW makes a weaker headstock far more apt to break if banged) negates the need to have string trees pull down over the nut.
     

  13. brians

    brians Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    48
    904
    Nov 28, 2016
    ZA
    All good but none the wiser, for example, the bullet is built on lowest possible cost , in fact the sum of the parts are worth more than the retail price. , so why put an extra string tree for any other reason than functionality ?
     

  14. Vjerilood

    Vjerilood Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    52
    Jul 30, 2017
    USA
    I never saw so many words used to describe a tiny scrap of metal. Well done!
     

  15. Wrighty

    Wrighty Senior Stratmaster

    Mar 7, 2013
    Harlow, Essex, UK
    Lost me, sure they don’t just put downward pressure on the string to keep it in the nut?
     
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  16. trapdoor2

    trapdoor2 Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    61
    577
    Oct 25, 2017
    Nawth Alabama
    LOL. Sorry, I don't have the heart to fight this fish. It was supposed to be obvious nonsense.

    My mother (well, I'm blaming her) always said, "I can always tell when you're lying, you talk too much" OTOH, when dealing in BS, verbosity is your friend...as is faux techno-speak. :D:):)
     

  17. fattboyzz

    fattboyzz Strat-O-Master Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    698
    Sep 24, 2017
    Sharpsburg ,Ga.

  18. ursamajor

    ursamajor Strat-Talk Member

    17
    Mar 18, 2011
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    It also has to do with the mass of an unladen Swallow and it’s airspeed velocity.
     
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  19. Bob the builder

    Bob the builder Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    57
    May 2, 2016
    Cranston, Rhode Island
    The old saying,
    If you can't Dazzle them with Brilliance then baffle them with bull s***
     

  20. stratman323

    stratman323 Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    57
    Apr 21, 2010
    London, UK
    Fenders originally had only one string tree, & that was fine. At some point (1970s?) they decided that a second one would be helpful, so they fitted one. Then at some point later on, it was decided that one was OK so they dropped the second one.

    It really doesn't matter.