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Tube Watts vs Solid State Watts?

Discussion in 'Amp Input - Normal or Bright' started by MetalPedal, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. jtees4

    jtees4 Strat-Talker

    497
    Nov 18, 2011
    NYish
    Speakers matter too when it comes to db levels, they can matter a lot!
     
    MetalPedal likes this.

  2. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 10, 2014
    Initech, Inc.
    Use this setup. Teach 'em right!
    IMG_2315.JPG
     

  3. circles

    circles Senior Stratmaster


    sss.jpg
     

  4. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh needs you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 10, 2014
    Initech, Inc.
    Thrup'ny Bit and circles like this.

  5. steben

    steben Senior Stratmaster

    Aug 9, 2012
    Zulte, Belgium
    Watts are watts. And 1 watt simply sounds almost as loud as 2 Watts... P = V²/R. So the amplitude in volts of a signal with 8 ohm speaker is:
    1Watt -> root (1 * 8) = 2.82 Volts
    2Watts -> root (2 * 8) = 4 Volts (only 42% more)
    100 Watts -> root (100 * 8) = 28.2 Volts (10 times as much, not 100)
    but that is another story.... Power is a strange beast. Our ears are no good power meters. Watts more often come in play when played next to another amp or at a stage where the amp must meet the other sound sources....

    Many power ratings are "RMS". This means the power of a SINE wave equalized to a equivalent square wave in power. This again is square root.
    Now imagine an ugly distorting solid state amp which start to sound ugly when the signal goes bang against the power supply treshold. This means the amp sounds bad once the RMS power is reached. In a (guitar designed!) tube amp the distortion comes gracefully and without ugliness, which means the signal sounds pleasant even beyond the RMS rating. Once the signal reaches a square wave at power supply treshold, we achieve RMS power * 1.41. 41% more power.
    Common slang labels this phenomenom as "louder tube amp watts" and if everyone agrees on this way of talking it's very acceptable. But in pure physics it is not true. It is simply louder "musically acceptable" watts.

    Just as grandpa loves Bach's brandenburger concertos with the stereo on loud and he calls the Queens of the stone age at half volume " loud ugly music"...... ;)
     
    davidKOS and Electgumbo like this.

  6. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    42
    Feb 8, 2011
    Raleigh NC
    This has all been stated several times over the past 4 pages. Why dig up a 4 month old thread to restate what others already said?
     
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.

  7. steben

    steben Senior Stratmaster

    Aug 9, 2012
    Zulte, Belgium
    oh well my bad :/
     
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.

  8. Elvis v

    Elvis v Strat-Talker

    Age:
    42
    202
    Apr 11, 2017
    My place.
    My Johnson ss state is 50 watts loud as crap. ielbwbnh0wbvtqydsd6m.jpg
     

  9. Ebidis

    Ebidis Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    51
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    Is crap louder than watts? :D:whistling:
     
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.

  10. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

    Please tell grandpa to leave Queens of the Stone Age alone.
     
    T Guitar Floyd likes this.

  11. davidKOS

    davidKOS Retired Performer Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    NO IT IS NOT FOR SURE

    learn something about electronics!

    good!

    But many well designed SS amps can also provide the same distortion.

    Again, it's all about running the amps into the distortion range of output.

    It ain't about volume, it's about distortion.

    I always use a CLEAN amp and add dirt with pedals. Otherwise you do not get a full dynamic range out of your playing due to tube compression. I happen to like louds and softs, not more or less overdrive, determined by my pick attack.

    I also like SS rectifiers for zero sag. when i play a fast run the amp better be able to handle it.

    This debate will never end, and as long as guys want to crank tube amps into the distortion zone, they will believe then to be louder than SS amps.
     
    chrimturn likes this.

  12. Stormy Monday

    Stormy Monday Lost Soul Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 19, 2011
    red barn, USA
    thanks!!
     
    davidKOS likes this.

  13. Stormy Monday

    Stormy Monday Lost Soul Strat-Talk Supporter

    Jan 19, 2011
    red barn, USA
    mmmmm sometimes.....
     
    Ebidis likes this.

  14. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    42
    Feb 8, 2011
    Raleigh NC
    It is when I have tacos for lunch.
     
    Ebidis likes this.

  15. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    60
    636
    Sep 3, 2016
    Houston, TX
    I'm glad you have found SS amps that work well for you. I haven't played the same amps you have, so my experience has been a bit different.

    I've been able to coax pretty decent sounds out of every amp I have ever owned, including SS amps. I simply find it easier to do so with my tube amps and prefer the way they sound (and "feel").

    There is a reason many SS amp manufacturers are working hard to "emulate" tube amps. Some are going to be more successful than others at the attempt.

    We all like what we like, and it is almost always different from what others do, so to each their own!

    Again, congrats on finding a SS amp that sounds like a tube amp to you!
     
    davidKOS likes this.

  16. davidKOS

    davidKOS Retired Performer Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    Actually I am happy to have SS amps that have a warm clean tone, like my vintage Yamaha G-100 III. They don't sound like a tube amp, they just sound like a good amp period.

    Like I said, I may be one of the only guys on this forum that uses a CLEAN amp tone.

    Plus, I do not like the compressed feel and lack of dynamics of a tube amp overdriven. Like I said, I want real louds and softs, not a change in tone color, with my picking.

    But as usual I am in the minority.
     
    Ebidis and JustABluesGuy like this.

  17. davidKOS

    davidKOS Retired Performer Strat-Talk Supporter

    May 28, 2012
    California
    I was reacting to the blanket statement as if it were a fact that tube amps and SS amps of the same wattage differ in volume. It's all about perceived volume and overdrive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    JustABluesGuy likes this.

  18. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Senior Stratmaster

    Age:
    42
    Feb 8, 2011
    Raleigh NC
    Don't think it was Stormy that stated SS and Tube amps of same wattage differ in volume, that was Metal Pedal. I think Stormy was genuinely saying thanks.
     
    davidKOS likes this.

  19. JustABluesGuy

    JustABluesGuy Strat-O-Master

    Age:
    60
    636
    Sep 3, 2016
    Houston, TX
    I find myself in the minority quite often as well!

    Again, we all like what we like, and we do what works best for us, and our musical situation. If I was gigging a lot doing varied cover tunes, I would very likely go the same route as you have, and leave my tube amps at home for recording and practice. The versatility, and lack of worry about tubes blowing during a show would be a big plus in my opinion.

    I play mostly roots stuff, mostly at home practicing, and jamming with friends, and don't need the same versatility as someone in a cover band would. ;)
     
    davidKOS likes this.

  20. Electgumbo

    Electgumbo Most Honored Senior Member

    Dec 26, 2010
    Scott La.
    @steben
    Winner winner chicken dinner! That’s what I was gonna say but you said it better then me anyway!