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USA Fender Deluxe with LSR - String Tension

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by riles1, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Hi All,

    I'm having a lot of issues with string tension on my Deluxe HSS. The high strings mainly G&B feel loose and not tension-ed enough. They tend to rattle a little also. It's really frustrating and it make me play my USA standard way more. Considering almost selling it over this issue, as the guitar doesn't feel right. Even after being setup at shop.

    The issue seems intermittent sometimes also. But could be what I'm playing at the time.

    Details:
    2010 USA Deluxe HSS
    LSR nut


    Could it be the trem springs?

    Any advice would be a big help.

    Riley.

    5.jpg 6.jpg 8.jpg 2.jpg
     
  2. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    More than likely it's the shallow angle of the strings over the nut. It's why string trees are normally used.

    This is not the first time I've heard of this issue with a roller nut.
     
  3. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Thank Ebidis,

    Do I swap the LSR out with a bone nut and add trees?
     
  4. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    That is up to you. It would probably cure the problem, but then there is the whole originality issue.
     
    riles1 likes this.
  5. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Sell on then I guess. Sounds like an inherit issue with Fender LSR on Deluxe....

    Love the combine radius though.
     
  6. Martins Strat

    Martins Strat Strat-Talker

    119
    Jul 28, 2018
    UK
    I just bought a new Strat so played it the way it came for a few days before changing the setup to my usual preferences.
    I couldn’t believe how much the string tension changed when I added my usual extra 2 springs and decked the bridge. It almost made me keep the string gauge the same but after a few days I swapped those for my usual Power Slinkys too.

    I see you currently have 3 springs, might be worth adding two more and seeing what you think?
     
    riles1 likes this.
  7. johnnymg

    johnnymg Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sep 5, 2015
    Central Coast Ca
    Please explain why that might be.
     
  8. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    Because there is insufficient downforce on the nut, causing the strings to vibrate too freely in a nut slot that is for all intents and purposes not cut correctly, so that it will accommodate a variety of string gauges.
     
    johnnymg likes this.
  9. johnnymg

    johnnymg Senior Stratmaster Strat-Talk Supporter

    Sep 5, 2015
    Central Coast Ca
    OK, I reread the OP's first post and see where he mentioned "rattling". :thumb:

    FWIW, I'm in the process of finishing up a Strat build and haven't installed a string tree yet for two high strings. Haven't noticed anything odd about how those strings behave and may just leave it that way. ???
     
    riles1 likes this.
  10. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    It depends on the guitar and the nut. Not every guitar without string trees will have a problem, but string trees do serve a purpose.
     
    rlmcritters1, johnnymg and riles1 like this.
  11. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    From memory it occurs when playing both open or barring a chord. It doesn't seem to amplify through but that being send the volume hasn't been cranked to notice it.

    Could the nut not be high enough?
     
  12. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    If you bar a chord, the nut is no longer in the equation. You may have another problem such as uneven frets.

    You may need a fret level, crown, and polish. Or maybe your action is too low.

    I know you said you had it set up at a shop, but that doesn't mean the guy knew what he was doing.

    Also, having someone else set up your guitar is like having someone else adjust the seat and mirrors in your car. Or having someone else break in your shoes. You know what I mean? ;)
     
    rlmcritters1, riles1 and johnnymg like this.
  13. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Thanks Ebidis,

    The frets were levelled. It's definitely not like the uneven frets sound, I have had that on previous strats. This is more about tension for sure, it feels loose. It rattles when you pluck it open or closed.
     
  14. Ebidis

    Ebidis Providing the world with flat bends since 1985 Strat-Talk Supporter

    Age:
    52
    Nov 14, 2013
    Alabama
    Are all of your bridge saddles siting securely on the plate? No loose height adjustment screws?

    Are all of the tuners tight? No loose nuts rattling?
     
    riles1 likes this.
  15. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    I'm sure all good but will check tonight. Thank Ebidis.
     
  16. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    I just checked than, everything is screwed down and not moving. The neck has the slightest of relief. Nothing jumps out as being different other than the LSR, having no trees and being 3 spring trem.

    So frustrating.
     
  17. Seekir

    Seekir Strat-Talker

    Age:
    64
    166
    Mar 11, 2015
    Hilo, Hawaii
    I retrofit an LSR in my Jeff Beck strat which originally came with the Wilkinson. It works fine in this guitar. The JB has locking tuners with no string trees. You don't have a full-sized photo of the headstock of your guitar—are there trees? I don't see any in the photos. The LSR is factory mounted in a wider slot in guitars like yours, you'd probably need to craft a special nut, maybe with an "L"-shaped step profile in order to substitute a plastic or bone nut. As Ebidis mentioned, the nut shouldn't be a factor if the "rattle" is occurring when you play barre chords without any open strings, though I suppose some loose part in the LSR could be resonating at certain frequencies. I don't see how the LSR would alter the "tension" you perceive when playing.

    The number of trem springs should only affect the action of the trem as far as I know, not the tension of the strings: the springs will simply equal the tension of the strings when they're tuned to pitch on a properly set up strat.

    HeadExt.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
    Thrup'ny Bit and riles1 like this.
  18. vid1900

    vid1900 Senior Stratmaster

    Nov 25, 2016
    USA
    The LSR does not require string trees because there are small rubber dampers built into the nut itself, preventing any rattling due to lack of string angle.

    I've installed 100s of these for over 20 years, and no LSR has ever done the sitar rattle (if you think about how it works, it can't).


    Put your ear directly on the guitar. On the headstock, neck, body, pickguard and find where your rattle is.


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  19. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Thanks for the advice guys. Ill keep searching for an answer to why it is happening. Even though I have swapped strings I will do it again.

    One thing I have noticed. The deluxe bridge saddles are more curved as opposed to the milled Am Std. Could this mean the angle is less? It's is also harder to get the strings out, usually need to poke the ball end out, where as I don't need to do that on AM Std.
     
  20. riles1

    riles1 Strat-Talker

    163
    Aug 9, 2017
    Brisbane
    Thanks Martin. I may give it a go today, just to rule it out. The springs are not as taught compared my AM Std, even when screwed right back.