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Why is this big news?

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by Guy Named Sue, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    ....and so, you contend it's common and has always been, but invoke the boogeyman "media" and say somehow the attention to the current scandal is unreasonable? I can't really see any way to square your various statements. I have a 16 year old kid and will be paying for part of his college education. Every slot taken up by some rich kid is keeping someone else out. Of course this is important. It would be important if it was a bunch of poor people baking pies to influence admissions.
     
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  2. rolandson

    rolandson Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Every one of the colleges that were party to this scam, knowingly or otherwise, accepts federal and state money for a variety of purposes...tax money...my money.

    It is impossible to say what might result from this being revealed. I'd like to think that a number of heads will roll, that jail time will be handed down and a system that I've known to be corrupt will finally be set straight.

    (remind me to share sometime about the football player student who enrolled in my first year physics course and never showed up so that I issued an X as a grade...no basis to issue a grade...only to see it administratively changed to a B so he could maintain eligibility)

    But in our climate where one set of rules apply to the masses and another to the political - monied elite, it is more likely that we'll be told that this system is for the benefit of us all. (look up insider trading rules for members of congress sometime).

    Nothing to see here...move along, move along...
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  3. circles

    circles Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Dare I suggest the way we educate ourselves overall is woefully out of date overall?

    Currently I'm in Seattle talking with school in California about teaching virtual reality related classes over the internet. Think about that sentence! Not that long ago, it would have been science fiction. I turn to the web all the time to learn bits and pieces. Maybe the whole system needs updating?
     
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  4. ido1957

    ido1957 Senior Stratmaster

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    Not surprising. Just illegal. Aw they got caught. I'm sure their equally expensive lawyers will get them a fine and probation which they can do in their mansions. I do hope the kids get their asses kicked out of school though.
     
  5. BobbyS

    BobbyS Strat-O-Master

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    meh................nothing to see here, move along

    what will happen to the well connected perpetrators.............absolutely nuffin..
     
  6. pgjstrat

    pgjstrat Strat-Talker

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    You think the media is pushing this to force some sort of morality discussion on society? the media is all of a sudden interested in right and wrong? All this is is click-bait. How many people have been busted in this and all the media talks about are the two well-known celebrities. WHy? Because it sells. If those two were not involved this story wouldn’t even get 5 minutes of air time. Headline “rich kids scam their way into college”...so what? Same with the Robert Craft sex ring. Why is that story big news? Because a celebrity is involved. Otherwise it’s just another prostitution sting that happens all the time. Not saying we should just sweep it under the rug, just that these things are human nature. Nothing shocking about either situation. Stop letting the media get you all worked up and angry.
     
  7. pgjstrat

    pgjstrat Strat-Talker

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    20 million kids in college, and we are supposed to get all upset at a handful (I think the number I saw was around 50) that scammed their way in. I don’t really care. Nobody didn’t get in to Stanford or USC because of one of these scammers. It doesn’t work like that. Admissions is a moving target. Schools intentionally over-accept knowing that a certain percentage will choose other schools. Then they go to the wait-list. My point is, this is a media-driven story. In the big scheme of things this really isn’t a big deal. It’s not even much of a crime. Is it immoral? Yes, very. Is it criminal, sure, but nobody is going to jail over cheating on the SATs or bribing a sailing coach. LEt me know when schools start handing out degrees through bribery. THAT’S a story! And I pretty confident that happens as well.
     
  8. jaybones

    jaybones Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Usually would happen when the student's wealthy parents made a large donation to the school.
     
  9. guitarface

    guitarface Senior Stratmaster

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    I don't really get being angry that a story is getting more attention than you think it deserves. I just don't.
     
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  10. rolandson

    rolandson Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Yes, we are.
    Nevermind that you fail to reference where you arrive at this figure as that is hardly the point.

    And you know this how exactly?

    My take is that there are kids busting their butts to earn those acceptance letters, who are learning today that the system is rigged.

    A system that lives and breathes with tax money.

    To quote from The Bard; "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Queen Gertrude, Hamlet

    Welcome to the cornfield.
     
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  11. pgjstrat

    pgjstrat Strat-Talker

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    Here, if you insist on references. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

    50 out of 20 million is hardly “rigged”. The world isn’t fair. Never has been. Never will be. there are a lot of other things people should be offended by instead of this. Besides, there are plenty of schools seats available. I seriously doubt any hard working students got bumped because of this statistically insignificant number of kids who bribed their way in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  12. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Sometimes coverage of individual incidents reveals systemic issues.
     
  13. dante1963

    dante1963 Strat-O-Master

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    The more I look at things happening around me, these days, I think, “anyone who isn’t angry, isn’t paying attention. Or is part of the problem.”

    Or, to quote Mr. Nancy, from American Gods. “Angry is good. Angry...gets **** done!”

    Nothing will ever change, until enough people get angry.

    The rich will continue to exploit the poor and bleed the rest of us dry until the moment that enough of us get angry enough to stop them.
     
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  14. ZlurkCorzDog

    ZlurkCorzDog ALSO BANNED Strat-Talk Supporter

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  15. pgjstrat

    pgjstrat Strat-Talker

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    I’d say the number of college kids who scammed their way in one way or another is probably around 100,000-200,000. That’s about .5%-1%. People cheating on ACT/SATs, falsely claiming a minority status, providing false transcripts, parents making large donations. I worked at a university for a year. My best friend was the Registrar. They caught people lieing and using false credentials and forged documents all the time. All the time.
     
  16. pgjstrat

    pgjstrat Strat-Talker

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    I agree, but this isn’t an exploitation story.
     
  17. ZlurkCorzDog

    ZlurkCorzDog ALSO BANNED Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Oops, wrong quote. :oops:
     
  18. ZlurkCorzDog

    ZlurkCorzDog ALSO BANNED Strat-Talk Supporter

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  19. dante1963

    dante1963 Strat-O-Master

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    I was thinking if that clip, actually.

    Howard Beale was right. First, you have to get angry.
     
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  20. Sangetsu

    Sangetsu Strat-Talker

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    What has happened is an entirely different matter. In the past, rich people donated heavily to their alma maters, building libraries, gyms, and dormitories, and in exchange for these facilities, their descendants received priority when applying for college. I don't have too much of a problem with this, as these facilities benefit a great number of other students. And top schools have always had "legacy" policies, that is, they give priority to the children of former students. Half of Washington gets their kids into college this way. Kerry, Bush, and even Obama all got into Harvard because their fathers went there. I don't like legacy policies, and I think that in light of the current scandal, universities are going to be rethinking these policies.

    But in the case of the recent scandal, fraud has been committed. When one can pay to have a third person sit-in and correct an SAT or ACT test, when one can have one's child apply as an athlete when that child has never played sports, that is fraud, and is unacceptable. This is the kind of stuff which is business-as-usual in India or developing countries, but which is entirely unacceptable in America.

    This thread must venture into the political realm because politics is mainly the reason why this scandal has erupted. The people charged in the scandal so far have only two things in common, they are rich, and they are white. Being rich is an asset toward getting a good education. You can afford better schools, tutors, extracurricular activities, and other things.

    But being white is not an asset nowadays, as Elizabeth Warren seems to have pointed out. If you are a person of color, and get a score of 1400 on your SAT test, you are quite likely to be accepted by any Ivy League school to which you apply. However, if you are white, even a score of 1500 won't get you in, unless you are a legacy, or have connections. And if you are an Asian, you are in worse luck, even a score of 1550 won't be enough to get you into Harvard.

    There are rich people, and then there are rich people. Most are hardworking and serious, and encourage their kids to be the same. Others are neither hardworking nor serious (the kind usually found in Hollywood), and neither are their kids. The former group faces tough odds getting their kids into top schools, the latter group faces almost impossible odds. When one has a Beverly Hills mansion, a fleet of cars, and an assortment of Berkin bags, the next most fashionable thing to have is your kid in a top school. When that isn't possible by the usual means, you are likely to try unusual means.

    When one begins to consider anything other than merit when it comes to filling positions in schools or companies, one is going to have problems. Exactly what is "fair"? It is unfair for a mediocre student to get a spot at a top college just because their mother or father went there. It is unfair to bribe a coach or counselor to get an unearned place for your child, it is also unfair to give a person a place based upon their race, gender, or political orientation.

    Universities themselves are at the root of this problem, because long ago they stopped seeing merit as the sole qualification for acceptance. When they began cherry-picking students based upon matters unrelated to merit, they opened the door to what is happening now. By creating endless policies, rules, and regulations in the name of fairness, they have simply made things more unfair.

    Trying to make things more "fair" by applying different standards to different people in order that they all get an equal chance is unfair. It is unfair to those who are denied despite being qualified, and it is unfair to those who are accepted who are not qualified, as it implies that they are inferior, and would not otherwise be accepted.

    What I liked about the Army when I was there was that it was completely color blind, everyone was equally worthless (to quote my first Drill Sergeant). People of different races tended to gravitate to different units and professions, but the Army was the most diverse place I had ever known. Everything was based upon merit, you sank or swam. But there were places for those who sank which matched their abilities, or lack thereof. Standards were not lowered out of "fairness" to those who less capable, because they dared not lower standards, low standards can get people killed. In some places, standards were nominally lowered, but in reality left unchanged. In the Airborne school, the policy for running times was lowered to make it easier for females to keep up. But in reality, the run times were not lowered, and students were banned from wearing watches to keep track; every morning before the run we had to hold up our hands straight up to show that no one was wearing a watch. Making it easier for women might sound good politically, but to the Airborne school itself, lowering the fitness level of 90% of the trainees so 10% might find it easier to graduate was seen as shortsighted and dangerous, and the new standard was not enforced. So, the very first run (the easiest of the cycle) would see at least half the females drop out. By the end of the first week, almost none would be left. The real world is not a fair place, but in reality, it is much more unfair to those for whom standards have been lowered.

    I have a 4-year-old daughter in school, my wife and I began planning her education before she was born. We visited all of the local public, private, and international schools. We studied each and every school, the scores the students received, the percentages of students who went on to university, and the percentages of the which were top universities. We are not as fanatical as some people are when it comes to education, but we are completely involved. Though she is only 4, she is fluent in two languages, and can get along in a third. Whenever she asks me "why?" (which happens a hundred times a day), I never say "because." I take the time to give her a real answer, and try to make sure she understands it.

    There is no guarantee that she'll make it into a top university, but if she doesn't, it will not be for lack of trying. One of the reasons my wife and I have worked hard is to be able to afford to pay for a good education. But we require that she does her part; we provide the money, she provides the effort. All we want in return is that she makes the same effort for her own kids when the time comes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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