1962 franken-strat with a Squier body???

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by pblanton, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    Ok. I had an old bass-boat that I wanted to get rid of, and there was a guy on CL with a "1964 Fender Stratocaster" that he wanted to trade for a boat. I contacted him and he came to look at the boat. He brought the guitar with him. I could tell it had some vintage mojo but wasn't quite the vintage 1964, untouched, lightly played guitar he made it out to be. Not a big deal though as I really wanted to get rid of the boat and the opportunity to trade it for a Strat was awesome.

    The boat was worth ~$4,000 and I was apologizing to the guy because the guitar was worth so much more. I didn't mind really, as I wanted to get rid of the boat and was happy to see it go. I'd have taken one of those new Epiphone Les Paul Modern in faded pelham blue (https://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone/Les-Paul-Modern-Electric-Guitar-Faded-Pelham-Blue-1500000314207.gc)

    The thought that I was getting what could be upward of a $25,000 guitar for that old boat was too good to be true, and clearly was.

    I just glanced at the guitar when I first saw it. It was in a classic tweed case that looked a bit too nice to be 56 years old. The guitar itself has the spaghetti logo, clay dots and the period correct mint-green pickguard. The bridge looks right I think. It is a bit rusty which I'd expect. There is some finish checking in the body, a few cracks, and a few dings; but not really 56 years worth. The neck seems to be in waaay too good of shape to be 56 years old.

    Red flags...

    • The case is too nice, and not flame-orange inside.
    • The saddles are a bit rusty, which I'd expect, but they seem a little too tight in it, as if they are in the wrong bridge.
      (Update: They are saddles for a US 2-3/16" string spacing bridge and this bridge is a 2-1/16" Asian or MIM bridge which is why the saddles seem crowded.)
    • The trem block seems a bit small; as if it's from a Squier, but the saddles are "Fender" branded steel. See above
    • There is some writing on the back-side of the pickguard that looks like it was written with a sharpie relatively recently. Totally Faked
    • The screw-holes on the back of the body, for the trem cover, are wrong I think. The middle screws are even, instead of staggered. Clearly not an American Strat
    • The tuners are not original. It's clear they have been replaced, and they don't quite fit into the headstock-holes. They're a little loose (Missing their washers). They also appear to be two-pin, screwless tuners instead of 6 in-line single-line Klusens.
    • The nut has been replaced with a brass one, which looks pretty new.
    • The screw holes in the metal shield don't quite line up with the holes in the pickguard. Clearly they don't go together.
    • There is one screw missing from the pickguard that has no corresponding hole in the metal shield, or body.
    • There is a hole near there in the body, that doesn't line up with the pickguard or shield.
    • I suspect the body is from a Squier.
    • The paint is in a little too good of shape to be 56 years old, though it does have some finish checking and a few cracks from a ding here and there. (It's been very well relic'ed)
    • The neck-plate is from a newer guitar and doesn't have the serial number on it.
    • There is no serial number on the headstock (Didn't expect one, but with the neck-plate wrong...)
    On the upside...
    • The neck looks to be a proper 1962. It's straight, not twisted, and the truss-rod has plenty of room. (Update: It's not. It's a relatively recent MIM Strat neck. Still in good shape though)
    • The pickguard seems right, but I am dubious about the writing on the metal shield, which is a separate piece. (Update: The top-middle mounting hole is in the wrong place for a '62)
    • The electronics seem right. (The Pot codes are from '61 and '62. I don't know about the pickups but they look old so either they are, or they are awesome fakes)
    • The wiring seems right. It's cloth-covered, vintage wiring.
    Overall I think it was a good trade, but not nearly as good as I originally thought. If the body is from a Squier but the electronics, pickups, neck and pickguard are all vintage, '62; I may be able to source a '62 body, and some vintage proper tuners, and re-assemble it into a proper, 1962 Strat.

    I can only add ten photos. All of them are here...

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/vDf2c9XjP9cFoqXN7


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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  2. dirocyn

    dirocyn Most Honored Senior Member

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    It's not a Squier body, pretty sure no Squier models have the middle screws on the backplate even like that.

    Another piece of bad news--that neck has a plate for a Micro Tilt, and those weren't introduced until 1971. I'm afraid you got taken by a scammer.
     
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  3. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    It's OK. I wanted to get rid of the boat and I like guitars. I didn't pay any money for it, just an old boat I no longer wanted. He was happy with the old boat and I am still happy with the guitar.

    I did expect to see "2 MAR 64 B" or something like that on the neck heel, as well as the bottom of the truss rod. When those was missing, I suspected it wasn't a period correct neck, but the label and date stamp on the neck threw me a little.
     
  4. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    I just removed the trem block and it is clearly not right. I believe the saddles are close to right, but the bridge and block are wrong. Franken-bridge.

    Also it would appear that the trem bar broke off in the bridge at some time.

    IMG_20200407_162116.jpg

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    IMG_20200407_162145.jpg

    IMG_20200407_162156.jpg
     
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  5. dirocyn

    dirocyn Most Honored Senior Member

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    Yeah, the label and date are totally fake. 100%. I'd be pretty upset trading a $4000 boat for that guitar. At best this is a partscaster with an unknown body, a post-1987 (micro tilt plus small headstock) Fender neck, and mismatched ill-fitting hardware. If this guitar were described properly as what it is, it would be hard to find a buyer who'd pay $400.

    The pickguard has at least one real CTS pot on it, with a 1961 date code. Those are Alnico pickups, I would assume they're GFS and worth $20 each unless and until someone with better knowledge than me can positively ID them.
     
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  6. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    The Neck Plate also has a hole for the micro-tilt, but the body doesn't have the micro-tilt screw in it. It's quite a mish-mash of parts.

    I believe it was built to scam someone, but I got it for such a good trade that I'm still happy with it. I would really like to know what period the pickguard and electronics are from.
     
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  7. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Silver Member

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    I have to agree, this really is a terrible scam. 62 strats don't have truss rod adjustments here, and a "black" truss rod sleeve indicates made in Mexico.

    [​IMG]

    Yikes :(
     
  8. dirocyn

    dirocyn Most Honored Senior Member

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    The one pot with a visible date code shows 1376145. 137=CTS; 6745 =45th week of 1961. That pot is perfectly plausible as belonging in a 1962 Stratocaster. The date codes are not visible in the pics of the other pots.
     
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  9. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    The pots are from late 1961. That's good news!

    upload_2020-4-7_16-52-15.png
     
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  10. tanta07

    tanta07 Senior Stratmaster

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    Wouldn't a '62 be in Fiesta Red, rather than this candy apple red?

    I know we've already established this is a fake, but I guess I'm wondering if this shade of red was available in 1962.

    I dig the guitar; if pblanton is cool with the trade then I'm all for it!
     
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  11. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    It's OK given what I gave for it. I like to build guitars and I am thinking that the pickguard and electronics may be from 1962. If I had paid thousands of dollars for it (I wouldn't have because I saw some red-flags from the git-go) then I'd be really hurt; but I'm ok. I still think I made out on it because of what's in it. As I said, I'd have happily taken a new Epiphone Les Paul Modern in faded pelham blue, and that's about a $650 guitar.

    The other pot codes are both 1376231, so late summer 1962 for the other two.

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  12. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    I've seen 64's listed in "Candy Apple Red" but of course a 56 year old guitar is not gonna have a lot of candy-apple shine left to it.

    And I wouldn't say it's a "fake". I think the electronics and pickguard are cobbled together from period-correct parts. I'm on the hunt now for a period-correct body, neck and tuners.

    I also have a nice candy-apple red body with some vintage mojo and a nice MIM neck that I can use with another loaded pickguard I have, to make a nice, giggable, player grade strat.
     
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  13. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Silver Member

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    Hi @pblanton

    Please head to this website page. There are 13 1962 stratocasters, completely original. Please look very carefully at each listing - all the photos in great detail. The pots, the placement of pickguard screws etc. Everything you need to help legitimise what you have is there. Look at all the 61s as well, as they're similarly specced.

    This is all text-book stuff. The strats you're about to look at are consistent:

    http://www.hi-guitars.com/PreCBSStockList.html
     
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  14. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Dr. Stratster

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    Welcome to the forum!! I'll be brutally honest.....


    You traded a $4000 boat for a $200 guitar.....that's a Mexico Fender Squier Series, or outright Squier, from the early 1990s.......with a fake Fender logo......should have asked us first, TONS of red flags - I can spot at least 10 that tell us it's not even close to being vintage.....let alone USA made....

    The loaded pickguard is nice, but it doesn't increase value as a whole....

    I am picturing the guy laughing inside his head when you told him you felt bad because you thought the guitar was worth more - laughing all the way to the bank - classic scammer.....sad....
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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  15. pblanton

    pblanton Strat-Talker

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    You really don't get it. I am ok. This boat was left on my property and eventually given to me. It needed a lot of work. I would have been happy to have someone like "Kars4kids" come haul it away.

    The book value on it was $4000, if it was in good shape. It was not. It was parked about ten years ago and hadn't run since then. It probably will run, but will need a lot of work to get it to that point.

    I knew this wasn't a true 1964 Strat. I did think the pickguard was legit but without taking it apart I had no clue about the electronics.

    I also suspected the guitar wasn't as old as he said it was, because it just looked too new. I did think that maybe the neck was original, but wasn't sure because I was missing some knowledge about vintage guitars.

    I'd have traded him a nice Squier for the boat. I'm just happy he took the boat and gave me something for it. I was thinking about calling Kars4Kids or Heritage for the Blind to have them haul it away. Instead, he took the boat, and I got a nice collection of guitar project parts for it.

    • I think the case is probably worth $150.
    • The pickguard with no electronics in it, is going for $575 on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174215038782 and that one is modified with a P-90 rout at the bridge position.
    • The neck is probably worth $100
    • The tuners are real Fender tuners and probably worth about $50.
    • The body has to be worth something.
    • The real, vintage pots and pickups and wiring

    All told the value of the "scammer" guitar parts is about $750, and that's not counting the vintage electronics, for which I'm plenty happy.

    Now, would I have rather gotten a perfect, vintage 1964 / 1962 Stratocaster with all original parts for my old boat? Sure! But as the old saying goes, you can't get something for nothing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  16. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

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    That is not in any way, shape, or form a '62 Strat, nor is it an American made Strat, nor is it a "real" Strat.

    The neck is a Fender Mexican made.
    The neck plate is from a later US model... post-CBS.
    The saddles may or may not be Fender, but they don't fit the bridge because the bridge plate and block are cheap imports... same for the body. The back plate holes being even indicates a generic Asian body. It MIGHT be Squier.
    The body is routed for H-S-S... Fender did not do that until the late 80s.
    The body also has CNC locating holes... not something you'd find on a '62.
    The wood grain in the neck pocket looks like Basswood.
    At some point, someone has used flat washers to shim the neck that used to be on that body.
    The date stamp on the neck is a complete fraud.
    The solid pickguard shield is still available at any Fender dealer.
    The capacitor is not original.
    That pot design was not used in '62
    That switch design was not used in '62 (wafer is wrong)
    The body has obviously had more than one pickguard installed on it.

    The neck and tuners are OK for Mexican parts, except the tuners are missing the washers, so even there you're screwed and you can't buy those washers separately.

    Seriously... you should call the police and report the guy for fraud. I don't know if they can or will do anything because you agreed to the sale.

    The pickups and loaded pickguard might be worth $100, IF those are Fender, Duncan, or DiMarzio pickups.
    That neck sells for $200 on the Fender web site.
    Assembled as is, in that condition? You won't even get $150 for it.... you can buy a brand new Squier for $180.
     
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  17. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

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    Yep... About the only thing RIGHT on this guitar is the top center pickguard hole is in the correct location for a '61/'62

    I've seen people try to pass off the CBS-era screw pattern as '62
     
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  18. CB91710

    CB91710 No GAS shortage here Double Platinum Supporting Member

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    I don't think Fender was sourcing CTS in those years.
    Every Fender I've seen from that era had the circular imprint on the shell...

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. stevierayfan91

    stevierayfan91 DEEPLY SHY.

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    Hi, @pblanton


    I am sorry that guy scammed you.
     
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  20. Stratoskater

    Stratoskater Fuzz Meister General

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    Wow what a total rip-off! I get you’d have been happy with an epi Les Paul but damn you could have sold the boat for a fourth of the $4K you say it worth and gotten a used MIA Std or Pro. I’m betting the only thing vintage it that is the pots.
     
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