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61 Strat Opinion

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by maidenroad, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. Will Lefeurve

    Will Lefeurve Senior Stratmaster

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    Yeah.. there's a regular cottage industry in UK that supplies the likes of Denmark Street-London. That along with the stolen ones of course.. ha-ha.. ;)

    I've never been either tempted or interested, but I guess its whatever floats your boat. One things for sure though, unless you are incredibly lucky, you're scraping the bottom of the pre-CBS barrel now in terms of wholesome originality/playability. The best days have been and gone, and one of the signs of that is the silly money some are asking for those 70's CBS boat anchors.. :D
     
  2. dueducs

    dueducs Senior Stratmaster

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    I can't say I disagree. I saw a set of '73 p'ups today for $1200. $1200!!! Alternate universe stuff I suppose.
     
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  3. Will Lefeurve

    Will Lefeurve Senior Stratmaster

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    Yes.. and the rest.. I've seen CBS guitars for sale at £2000, £3000, £4000, £5000, £6000.. £6500.. and the equivalent in Euro's. Crazy, crazy, stuff. Its the normal run of things these days though I suppose. When one market is drying up.. goose another one..
     
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  4. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    I'm not a vintage guitar fan (don't have the money) but I would avoid the London shops unless you know what you are doing. The problem is that London prices are even higher - I think vintage and rare are in Chelsea which means they're prices will be the highest in the UK.

    I have had good experiences with Guitar Village so I know they are OK. But as others have said, you are paying a lot of money for it so you must have someone with good knowledge check the guitars before you buy.
     
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  5. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    If you’re in Paris, you should go and check out rue de Douai in Pigalle. I’ve never seen such a concentration of awesome vintage pieces on European soil. Nothing’s cheap though! I tried an early ‘60s tele that was wonderful, but had a questionable refret (Medium Jumbo) and they wanted upwards of 20’000 € for that :eek:

    As someone who’s been there before: why are you in the vintage market and what do you want to spend?

    If you’re looking for a guitar that plays and sounds like those of yore, you might want to consider a reissue. Of all the vintage teles and strats I played, including a few holy grails (’57 strat, mid-50s esquire, late ‘50s strat, early ’60 strat and tele, etc…) only one was perhaps nicer than a reissue in terms of play and sound (go figure: the cheapest of the lot i.e. a refin ’66 telecaster going for ≈ 4000€).

    Add to that that authenticity issues are rife, and that you may pay top dollar even for guitars that most certainly won’t play or sound or look as good as an AVRI. I tried early ‘70s teles that were being sold for a few thousand € and were real certified dogs … you could have bought an AVRI ’52 tele for less then 1000€, have a much better guitar, and the money to buy a top-notch amp. Oh wait… it’s what I’ve done eventually ;D

    I’m not saying “don’t do it”. I’m saying “consider well why you’d want to spend so much on a tele or strat”.
     
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  6. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank you for your advice nutball73
     
  7. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank you radiofm74
    La rue de douais à Paris had very nice guitar but the prices are so high...

    I am not hurry for my purchase. I will see...test...and buy the one I prefer. It’s can be a avri, a custom shop or a vintage I don’t know... but that sure I will go with an expert of it’s a vintage one.

    For this 61 strat, I wanted your opinion before go to uk for a test. Now that sure I will not...
     
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  8. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    If you do come to the UK, I highly recommend visiting Guitar Village at Farnham. It's probably my favourite guitar shop, and they have a wide selection of guitars from vintage through to custom shop, AVRI and USA/MiM, so you could compare them. They are happy to let you play anything, and the village is very scenic too.

    (No affiliation, I just like the shop).
     
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  9. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I've found (for many people at least) "reissue" becomes synonymous with "not the real thing" or "replica of real thing."

    There's no right or wrong here, and it's all subjective, and reissues can be perfect, better, 1/4 the price.

    But that whole "real thing" ideal. It can be hard to shake. A lot of us have been there.
     
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  10. crashbelt

    crashbelt Strat-O-Master

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    A few observations on this thread.

    Guitar Village does seem like a decent place from the couple of times I'm visited, although they aren't primarily vintage specialists.

    But the prices of their refins with some other issues seems very high to me. Too close to what you can buy an original finish sunburst 64/65 for, to be good buys imho (and S/Bs are less likely to be faked than custom colours for obvious reasons). And way more expensive than an AVRI etc which you have an open mind to.

    As mentioned here before, some of the vintage dealers left in Denmark St have questionable links to Music Ground's criminal background. Check it out on the internet if you're not familiar with the sorry story. I'd avoid Denmark Street these days.

    I'd also be very careful in the Rue de Douai area of Pigalle in Paris. I reported back here on this after a visit to Paris in 2018. Apart from a couple of stores, most of the vintage dealers lied to me about blatantly obvious issues, a couple almost laughably so, and the general standard of vintage stock was poorer than in most UK vintage dealers. I'd be very careful buying here and only accompanied by an expert.

    Good luck.
     
  11. IMuzzy

    IMuzzy Strat-Talker

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    Hi, this guy always catches my attention: http://davidjpym.com/page203.html the prices are strong but I hear he. Has a solid reputation.

    No affiliation, I found some of his stock on display in an antiques arcade in Hungerford.
     
  12. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    Finally, go through a professional is not a guarantee of authenticity to what I see. Moreover the price is globaly very high.
    I had already experimented that with stores rue de douai that told me absurd informations.
    Finding a vintage guitar seems like a very difficult mission :D
     
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  13. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    … or sometimes the clerk does not really have a clue. That happened to me too.

    @Bazz Jass : I get it. Like anyone else I am subject to the thrill of holding a ’57 strat in my hands. What I was saying was just that the sound, and the playing experience, are extremely close when you have a good quality reissue. And the downsides of having what you call “the real thing” are a very high price tag, possibly the set-up and maintenance problems that come with an instrument that is 50-70 years old, and some measure of anxiety in carrying it around.

    Anyway I think if you want to go vintage, you have to do a LOT of homework and become able to spot even good fakes – regardless of where you buy. Also, you need to be great at pricing. In other words, you have to become an expert yourself. More so with Fender guitars than any other guitar brand. The incentive and possibility of faking an old Höfner archtop are negligible compared to the incentive and ease of selling you a refin 50’s body with replica hardware, electronics and neck for a “real thing” 50s tele or strat.
     
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  14. Will Lefeurve

    Will Lefeurve Senior Stratmaster

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    Good post @RadioFM74 .. but I'd just like to say that in my opinion so much of the mystique/romance tied up with old guitars is nothing more than a head game. Especially now.. when the internet can have a disproportionate effect on someone's thinking.. You can easily get sucked in..

    My question is.. Would that thrill be there if you'd just picked up the 57 Strat but didn't know what it was. I have a feeling it wouldn't.

    We create our own mystique/romance when we know a guitars age and worth. Once that's established, all common-sense can quickly fly out of the window, even if you're practically armed with the knowledge that a modern reproduction of that guitar is more than likely far better on every count..

    As our in-house bard @Thrup'ny Bit would say.. "There's now't so strange as folk".. :D
     
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  15. Thrup'ny Bit

    Thrup'ny Bit Grand Master Curmudgeon Strat-Talk Supporter

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    That's not just vintage gear, it's all gear and it has always been that way.

    I don't even read these threads, they hold no real interest for me.
     
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  16. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Hey! Lets not forget, some of us just like old stuff! Not just guitars....Not just wives....

    Sure can pay a lot for antique furniture, and damn it's uncomfortable to sit in!
     
  17. Stratwrangler

    Stratwrangler Strat-O-Master

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    Your right its not just guitars , I shoot and have a 145£ Baikal shot gun for messing around and an old browning superposed value about 8k I inherited that is just stunning . Both do the same thing but its like I try a bit more with the Good gun and for those that like vintage guitars its the same ethos, something you cant put a price on sometimes.
     
  18. CB91710

    CB91710 This is a Custom Title Gold Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    From the threads we've been seeing lately, it sure seems like it.
    Maybe somebody unearthed a shipping container of Strats that never made it to Barcelona in 1963?
     
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  19. Will Lefeurve

    Will Lefeurve Senior Stratmaster

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    Who could forget you Bazz.. you're an institution.. ;):D.. I was once, and now there are those that think I should be locked up in one.. :)
     
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  20. vid1900

    vid1900 Most Honored Senior Member

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    It's easy to detect all those garage built fakes that pop up on CL every day, but the ones that the pros are now doing fool even the experts.
     
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