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61 Strat Opinion

Discussion in 'Pre-CBS Strats (before 1966)' started by maidenroad, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    Thank you for your advise.
    You have totally right.
    Naively, I did not think there was so much fake in guitar vintage world (even if the price reached by some guitars, it makes sense).
    This discussion is very interesting in any case
    I'm starting to become paranoid I see fake everywhere now (which is a good thing in a way) lol.
    Anyway, I'm not in a hurry.

    Want do you think of this neck?
    The font of the number 2 on the neck date don't seems commun but I already see this kind of font.
    The decal questions me also, Normally transition logo have 4 patents. Here you have got 3 with a DES 169.062. I already see this logo maybe on 2 or 3 1964 neck on internet but I have a doubt.
    https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/annonce-1763307
     
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  2. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    Not good enough to help, but others will chime in.

    Buying vintage parts at a premium is something I would never do. At least with whole guitars you can spot inconsistencies. With parts, if it’s faked competently, there is no way for you to tell, plus the collector value just isn’t there … it was gone the moment the neck (assuming it’s a real one) was parted out.

    Besides – even assuming no forgery: I can see the attraction of holding and playing a pre-CBS tele or strat (I know @Will Lefeurve it’s irrational …) but in all honesty I can’t begin to see the attraction of buying a pre-CBS neck at a crazy price, and then bolting it to some other body that has no relation to its original body.
     
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  3. Will Lefeurve

    Will Lefeurve Senior Stratmaster

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    We're all allowed to be irrational at least once in our lives.. I married my now ex-wife for a start.. :eek::D
     
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  4. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    Totally agree with the collector value. It's a nonsense if you want to build a pre-cbs guitar with different original parts only to pretend to own a vintage strat.
    But you can not deny the quality of the pre-cbs neck.
    If you hide the high price (maybe not justified price) for a just a neck, the goal is not to do a collectible strat, just a very got player strat.
     
  5. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    If by “quality” you mean playability, durability, and good fit and finish, I disagree entirely with the reasoning. As I said before, good quality necks produced today are every bit as good as those produced in the golden years (minus the wear, which may or may not be a good thing). So if you get one that is spec’d in the same way, what you have is practically the same neck. It is then a matter of preference what profile, radius, … you like, and today you can find Fender necks fitting any preference (not to mention Allparts etc…).

    I speak from experience because like you I went on the hunt. I love vintage Fenders, and I am all for vintage specs, so it was logical I’d do that. But to my amazement none of the vintage guitars I tried were inherently better than the AVRIs I tried alongside them – specifically, their necks were no better. Actually, most had (not surprisingly in such old instruments) developed issues of varying severity: buzzes, wolf notes, …. Sure, the necks of the 50s esquire and of the ’57 strat I tried recently were great… but extremely similar to those of the ‘56s AVRI strat I tried in shops and of the (1998-2011) AVRI 52 tele I have at home. The neck of mid-60s strats were (again not surprisingly) very similar to the neck of the strat you see in my avatar. Many were actually slimmer, which makes me prefer mine.

    Even more tellingly, when I made a 3-hour train trip to go and see a 1966 telecaster (you see… I am passionate about this stuff), I brought along my Baja 60s so I could A/B them. The '66 was on the whole a “better” tele for my tastes – it was super-light, very beautiful, and the pickups had a very airy sound (or was it the way they were set-up?). But there was no big difference from my humble Mexican tele… so much so that I walked away from the deal. Specifically, there was no discernible difference in quality concerning the neck. Aesthetical differences yes (but the most beautiful rosewood neck I’ve ever seen is the one on my AV64… go figure). Radius and frets, yes (but you can get vintage spec also on new or lightly used guitars for a fraction of the cost). “Quality”, no.

    (Re pre-CBS and post-CBS… I have not been lucky in the 70s strats and teles I tried or had, but that ’66 tele was the most scrumptious little vintage guitar I tried on my hunt and the only one that I sometimes think back to).

    I guess that I am, precisely, denying the quality of the pre-CBS neck :D What do you mean by that exactly?
     
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  6. vid1900

    vid1900 Most Honored Senior Member

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    There is no magic in a pre-CBS neck.

    It was a mass produced product, meant to be assembled cheaply.

    A modern neck, with it's bi-flex truss rod, easy to adjust hex, and compound radius fretboard is better in every way.
     
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  7. dirocyn

    dirocyn Senior Stratmaster

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    Nah, what you're doing is denying that pre-CBS Fender has a monopoly on quality. Without question many pre-CBS Fenders are outstanding high quality guitars. But there are also outstanding high quality guitars being built today--often to the exact same specs and at 1/10th the price even if Fender Custom Shop does the build.

    The pinnacle of guitar quality was not reached in the early 60s. And the cabinet carpenters working at Leo's factory earning maybe $2 an hour were not the finest luthiers in the history of the world. They were factory workers, and likely turning out multiple necks per hour.
     
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  8. maidenroad

    maidenroad Strat-Talk Member

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    I just wanted to say that if the neck fit the user it is the main thing.
    And that without considering whether it is a vintage or recent.
    It is absolutely not for a collection purpose and you probably have reason on the fact that recent neck are as good
    Sorry I may not have used the right word.
     
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  9. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    My latest "old" acquisition - 1918 Gibson A mandolin. You can say what you like about old vs new electric guitars, but old acoustic instruments really do ring! Of course vintage tuning pegs are a complete nightmare!!! :confused:

    20191123_152354.jpg
     
  10. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Senior Stratmaster

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    Well, if we’re talking acoustic instruments it’s different, first of all because many have no “reissue” to speak of. Here’s my ’53 Höfner, with a (probably late-50s or early 60s) Rhythm Chief. I won’t claim it’s the best archtop there is – it just isn’t – but it’s a great archtop, I got it on the cheap (800€) and it would have been very hard to get anything like it that was not 66 years old ;D I sometimes dream about pre-war Gibsons and Epiphones … don’t get me started o old archtops …

    And there is a reissue of the Rhythm Chief, apparently excellent, but not at all built like the original.

    This is gear that no longer exists on the market – it’s vintage or bust (almost… luckily not entirely). 50s-style teles and strats are on the market in wonderful quality and prodigious quantity (not to mention all their more modern descendants…)

    IMG_5889.jpeg

    Old amps are another case where vintage makes sense. Except for some models, they don’t cost much more than modern reissues and in some cases they are just plain fantastic. Again. you have to know what you’re buying...

    About pre-CBS necks…

    This is precisely the point I was making. Some of them were fantastic. Most of them good or great… but that is true of today’s production. And I see that we agree with the OP.

    If that’s the feeling you have, my suggestion would be to go and try as many as you can, with open mind and open eyes. It will be fun, and you don’t have to worry about prices. Try 20’000€ vintage guitars, American Vintage wherever you find them (older and newer), and do try Mexican “vintage-spec”, especially the pretty awesome new Vinteras (the “non-mod” 50s models of tele and strat).

    You may find that to you vintage instruments are infinitely superior, and then you’ll have to save money and do lots of homework. Or you may find that newer and much cheaper guitars can satisfy your every need and leave money to buy … old acoustic archtops or ancient amps … or a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant for your significant other :D

    Good luck in the quest, and don’t forget to have fun while you’re at it!
     
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  11. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

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    Finding a good and suitable vintage guitar is like finding your partner for life...

    ... some people are lucky, and find the right one from the start...
    ... some people try a lot, and finally find the right one...
    ... some people will never find what they are looking for...
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  12. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Wow! That's pretty heavy for a Tuesday....
     
  13. crashbelt

    crashbelt Strat-O-Master

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    1918 was a good year for mandolins Bazz.

    20180917_212151.jpg
    My 1918 F4 has a beautiful and loud clear ringing tone. I read that the Mando Orchestras were quite dominant around that time so these were top crafted professional instruments. 1918ish Gibson mandos are great value being just before the Lloyd Loar-signed era which collectors pay crazy money for.

    Sorry for going off at a slight tangent - just cant resist a bit of vintage Gibson mando discussion.

    I think I remember buying mine new from Music Ground in Denmark Street:whistling:
     
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  14. Mipstoo

    Mipstoo Senior Stratmaster

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    It’s clearly a fake... :D
     
  15. Bazz Jass

    Bazz Jass Chairman of the Fingerboard Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Great F4! When were 20-somethings back in the 90s my best friend and I (both rockers) started a bluegrass band as a side project. I imported a 1928 archtop Gibson from Gruhn, but my friend got super lucky and found a black face F4 at a local (New Zealand) used instrument shop!

    78610012 (3).JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
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