Am I missing out?

[Bern1]

I’ve heard both that vintage Fenders are the Holy Grail, and that they pale in comparison to modern instruments. As the owner of a ‘61 slab board in Olympic White for almost 50 years, IMHO the truth lies somewhere between the two. I can honestly say I prefer my ‘61 to any other Strat I’ve ever played, especially the neck. I love the sound. Value aside, I still wouldn’t trade it for any new Strat.

However, if I didn’t already own it, there is no way I’d spend the kind of money these things sell for to get one. The prices are driven more by collectibility and demand than by the actual quality of the guitar. And each guitar must be judged individually. There were clunkers built in the old days, just as there are clunkers built today.

To put it more succinctly, are they better than current Strats? Generally, yes. Are they worth the current prices? IMHO, no.

Bill, tgo

I could have written this exact post about my old Strat as I look around at prices these days. I even think most modern “relic” or “custom shop” models are in off the charts ridiculous territory price wise. It’s insane that a solid body bolt on neck guitar should cost this much in the age of fantastic precision machine tools that are everywhere in the world.

 

[El Gobernador]

A wizard's wand is a tool.

 

[dirocyn]

Look, the only thing that matters is how you feel when you play it. If a new one makes you feel better, there's your answer. If an old one makes you feel better, then there's your answer.

And if the age doesn't make a difference, there's your answer.

 

[sikoniko]

I’m a bit ocd. I wanted vintage. I wanted original. Until I got what I wanted, I wasn’t satisfied and constantly still on the chase. Get what you want. Get what makes you happy and get what inspires you to stop chasing and play more.

 

[Nokie]

Everybody knocks the real '70s CBS Strats but once you get one in your hands, they are REALLY good guitars, if you can deal with a 7 1/4" radius. Great "starter vintage" items because they're usually well under 3K for a '77 or so in excellent shape. Smart investments and really good guitars.

Yeah, they really are high quality. Loving the 7.25" radius, my only criticisms are when they got to be so heavy and I was never comfortable with the three bolt neck - they would get jarred to one side if ya shnocked 'em good enough (a dumb thing t'do, yes, but we were not the brightest in those daze). Functionally, at least for improved action adjustments, I get the idea of the three bolt.
I'm fortunate enough to have a '79 under 8 lbs where my friend's from the same year came in at something around 10 lbs - but he still has his too. We both converted ours to 4-bolt necks. I second your promotion of the 70's model as "starter vintage".

 

[gwilde]

I'll throw in, I've had a few vintage Fenders and played many more, I love them and was very romantic about them, till I owned and got to experience them for myself, their monetary value just makes them impossible for me to keep, if someone dropped a '59 Strat in my lap today, it would be for sale tomorrow, I'd bank a TON of dough and buy the exact guitar from the Custom Shop. I have, hands down, the best Strat I've ever had, out of around 20, right now and it's a Custom Shop guitar. That's my two cents, I LOVE vintage guitars and totally get the romance, but they're too damn expensive for me, hell, Custom Shop's are too expensive for me, but they are priced just right imo, for what you get.

 

[Oldiemurphy]

Yeah, they really are high quality. Loving the 7.25" radius, my only criticisms are when they got to be so heavy and I was never comfortable with the three bolt neck - they would get jarred to one side if ya shnocked 'em good enough (a dumb thing t'do, yes, but we were not the brightest in those daze). Functionally, at least for improved action adjustments, I get the idea of the three bolt.
I'm fortunate enough to have a '79 under 8 lbs where my friend's from the same year came in at something around 10 lbs - but he still has his too. We both converted ours to 4-bolt necks. I second your promotion of the 70's model as "starter vintage".

I had three 70s Strats back in the mid-70s, and kept one of them to this day. It's a 1975 and weighs 7.7 pounds so it's not at all uncomfortable. I never had a problem with 3-bolt necks and my '75 was dropped, bashed and smashed in so many clubs back in the day. But yeah, the inconsistency of workmanship from that era was all over the place. Mine came complete with a drip of dried glue at the nut, lol. My all-time favorite Strat was a '63 sunburst with rosewood neck. It played like a dream but I traded it away like a fool.

 

[springysound5150]

I'll throw in, I've had a few vintage Fenders and played many more, I love them and was very romantic about them, till I owned and got to experience them for myself, their monetary value just makes them impossible for me to keep, if someone dropped a '59 Strat in my lap today, it would be for sale tomorrow, I'd bank a TON of dough and buy the exact guitar from the Custom Shop. I have, hands down, the best Strat I've ever had, out of around 20, right now and it's a Custom Shop guitar. That's my two cents, I LOVE vintage guitars and totally get the romance, but they're too damn expensive for me, hell, Custom Shop's are too expensive for me, but they are priced just right imo, for what you get.

I’ve actually been considering Custom Shop reissues, AVRI’s, and Strats from the early 1970’s. I’ve noticed the early 70’s Strats have really started to get up there in price.

 

[Toppalini]

I could have written this exact post about my old Strat as I look around at prices these days. I even think most modern “relic” or “custom shop” models are in off the charts ridiculous territory price wise. It’s insane that a solid body bolt on neck guitar should cost this much in the age of fantastic precision machine tools that are everywhere in the world.

They have to pay their builders salaries whether or not they’re building a bunch of guitars or not. At least for masterbuilt. So you’ve got these builders with fat salaries (I assume) that might only make 2-3 guitars a month if that! So yeah they do need to charge more

For the lower end CS stuff they may be using normal methods and labor for, yeah 4k is ridiculous You’re right

If my AO body had a different finish it would be no different than a CS except the contours go figure

 

[sikoniko]

He

I’ve actually been considering Custom Shop reissues, AVRI’s, and Strats from the early 1970’s. I’ve noticed the early 70’s Strats have really started to get up there in price.

Get a 69 or early 70s 4 bolt strat. They are great guitars!

 

[springysound5150]

He

Get a 69 or early 70s 4 bolt strat. They are great guitars!

Hard to find one for under 10 grand that doesn’t have a bunch of replaced parts.

 

[Butcher of Strats]

Visit some old folks homes and ask how many old folks have deep regrets over trying things they wanted to try.

 

[Butcher of Strats]

Hard to find one for under 10 grand that doesn’t have a bunch of replaced parts.

Well yeah but old stuff that never got any parts replaced is a different category.

If you want a vintage car, does it need to never have had any parts replaced?

The primary vintage parts on a Fender guitar are body neck and pickups.
Guards, pots, tuners, bridges, those are things that get collectors excited if none were changed, but they do little for the vintage Fender thang.
Pickups do have some mojo but you can buy vintage pickups if you get an original neck & body with replacement parts.
Or really you can just choose from all the spendy and fair priced fine RI and boutique pickups.
Neck and body, those are what feels like a vintage guitar, especially if some nitwit did not decide to refinish just like brand new.
Plenty of bad refins are fery cool and drippung with mojo which is all a vintage Fender really offers.

The price of all original vintage Fender?
Higher not because all original makes them better.
Only because it is rare to find them in good shape with no new parts.

 

[springysound5150]

Well yeah but old stuff that never got any parts replaced is a different category.

If you want a vintage car, does it need to never have had any parts replaced?

The primary vintage parts on a Fender guitar are body neck and pickups.
Guards, pots, tuners, bridges, those are things that get collectors excited if none were changed, but they do little for the vintage Fender thang.
Pickups do have some mojo but you can buy vintage pickups if you get an original neck & body with replacement parts.
Or really you can just choose from all the spendy and fair priced fine RI and boutique pickups.
Neck and body, those are what feels like a vintage guitar, especially if some nitwit did not decide to refinish just like brand new.
Plenty of bad refins are fery cool and drippung with mojo which is all a vintage Fender really offers.

The price of all original vintage Fender?
Higher not because all original makes them better.
Only because it is rare to find them in good shape with no new parts.

This is actually a great way to look at it. I’ve always been kinda obsessive with keeping things original or at the least keeping the original parts you remove.

 

[Nokie]

I had three 70s Strats back in the mid-70s, and kept one of them to this day. It's a 1975 and weighs 7.7 pounds so it's not at all uncomfortable. I never had a problem with 3-bolt necks and my '75 was dropped, bashed and smashed in so many clubs back in the day. But yeah, the inconsistency of workmanship from that era was all over the place. Mine came complete with a drip of dried glue at the nut, lol. My all-time favorite Strat was a '63 sunburst with rosewood neck. It played like a dream but I traded it away like a fool.

Sorry to hear about the one that got away. Duane Eddy's son, Chris, was a year behind me in high school. He had a '63 - the first vintage Strat I had the pleasure of beholding. It is what had me salivating for a vintage ever since. Decades later I was fully satiated pulling the big trigger on my GAS-curing original '55 (6.75 lbs) that I fortunately still have.

 

[Will Lefeurve]

I’ve actually been considering Custom Shop reissues, AVRI’s, and Strats from the early 1970’s. I’ve noticed the early 70’s Strats have really started to get up there in price.

OP.. this is your thread, and titled "am I missing out".. You own a Tokai ST100 which is a very high grade guitar indeed. You bought it to scratch an itch, but supposedly it didn't work and you're still itching!

In your post that I've included ^^^^ you're considering CS reissues, AVRI's and 1970's Strats. Are these all to scratch the same itch.. or a different one. I'm genuinely intrigued, because that's quite a spread of guitars, when you include the top Tokai that you have and the perusal of pre CBS guitars.

Does your preference for guitars demand 7.25" radius necks with vintage frets, because it seems to me that's where you are hovering. Or are you a budding collector? Thing is, I don't know you from Adam, you may be an old timer like me at 70+ or a spritely youngster just starting out, finding your way. Either way, you've joined a forum, which in some ways is a good thing, but not in all ways.

For example, in the majority of cases guitar owners/players (note I said owners/players - not always the same thing) will mostly defend and promote their own choice of instrument.. even if its a complete 'dog'. Forums in general don't make for unbiased advice.. fact. So, IMHO anybody asking for advice or guidance on a forum will go away more confused than when they entered. When I say that, I'm talking more.. what guitar, amp, or pups to buy.. not technical advice, which I know on this forum I've both consumed and contributed to.

So what gives.. the "am I missing out" certainly spiked me. What are you seeking, do you know, or are you just fishing for ideas. By the way, I hope I'm not come across as being sarcastic or rude, I'm actually genuinely interested..

 

[jd35801]

I currently own a ‘61 refinished and a ‘57 original except routine repairs and a 5 way switch. These guitars are special, and they have something about them that sets apart from any of my other guitars, and from any new guitars that I have played. Having said that, I have to admit, I cannot see myself ever paying the price that these guitars currently sell for. Instead, I would buy several custom shop guitars, or something like that. In fact, I have now gone the other way. I like to get guitars that are not overly expensive, and have them set up extremely well to where they sound and play almost as good as my originals.
The vintage guitars I own I love because they are not only great guitars but also they represent dreams that I had. So are you missing out? Only you can answer that. To me, prices are prohibitive but that’s easy for me to say when I already have my dream guitars. Do what makes you happy.

 

[Bern1]

I found that my 59AV Strat is 97.5% as good as my 1960 original. Playing and tone. I won’t lie, there is that arbitrary small percentage that this guitar has over my 59AV that is due to mojo, age, wood, blah blah blah, whatever you want to call it. After 50+ years of the vintage business and playing guitar, I don’t know exactly what it is or what to attribute it to. However, that little edge is so small today with all the great guitars available at all price points, basically insignificant and may be solely due to the fact I have played this guitar constantly for over 45 years.

That said, as far as making music, there are many many inexpensive Strats that will work. We all know it ain’t the guitar, it’s the player that counts.

For sure there is no advantage to a Custom Shop or other “premium” Fender guitar, especially at the insane mark up, unless YOU want that.

With my AV I did have to do a good setup, adjust the nut, smooth frets, jiggle the action and intonation, etc. that I assume you wouldn’t have to do with a CS or other premium piece. At least I hope not.

Back when I worked in the business, we would fully set up ANY guitar we sold, new or vintage, expensive or cheap, before it went out the door or shipped UPS.

Sadly, today I walk in to many shops where the guitars are only semi playable or not at all. I don’t get it but there it is.

Play on and Peace out!

 

[sikoniko]

so I have been giving this some more thought.. and thinking about my own journey to vintage.

I started with an american standard, then went through a dozen or so custom shops, before landing on vintage. I've gone down several paths of vintage... partscaster, refin, and original.

I've had great vintage partscasters and great refins.. so keep an open mind on player grade guitars.

Every one of the guitars along this journey that I had sounded good to great, the ones that did not were rotated out quickly.

Every one of them could get the job done. But none of the modern guitars had the same feel and/or tone as my keeper vintage guitars. The refin '55 I had was a bit too bright for my taste, and it did not last long. There is just something more to my keeper vintage guitars (and one of them is a refin - 60 custom tele).

I believe the 80/20 rule applies here.. you spend 20% of your money to get 80% of the way there, and 80% of your money to get that last 20%. We all have to decide what is good enough for our budget and life is full of compromises. I had bought some really cool vintage guitars over the last couple years that I had to sell off, and I'm thinking about selling two more. It is what it is. But I do know what my keepers are and I feel very grateful to have had the chance to have the ones that passed through for a period of time, and even more grateful for the ones I plan on keeping.

I will say that sometimes I want something and when I get it, it just isn't for me. This is the case with my 65 jaguar. I love the idea of owning one. It's a beautiful guitar to look at. and It is based off of an inspirational song from my youth, but from a practical standpoint, I just don't choose to play it when I have my other guitars available, so I am thinking about unloading it.

So keep in mind, that you might find what you think is the one... but you might also find that when you get it, the romance of having it may be more than the practicality of owning it. But, the journey of discovering what I like and don't like has been a fun, though costly, ride.

 

[EyeLikeTortoise]

Just some inspiration for the discussion. My 61 soaking up some sun on a Sunday afternoon.