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Amp Output Question

Discussion in 'Amp Input - Normal or Bright' started by Cold Shot, Sep 25, 2020.

  1. Triple Jim

    Triple Jim Guy Who Likes to Play Guitar Silver Member

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    60 watts means that's the maximum power the speaker can handle before it gets damaged. It's not an efficiency rating. Manufacturers have a separate rating for how loud a speaker is, called "sensitivity". For example, as Seventy-80 is rated at a sensitivity of 98 dB. A Midnight 60 has a sensitivity rating of 96 dB. A Vintage 30's sensitivity is 100 dB.

    I don't know if this would account for the large difference in loudness you're hearing though. Maybe try a spare set of output tubes and see if it makes any difference.

    edit: missed Stratoholic's post above
     
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  2. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    I missed part of that post myself, actually. I'm gonna swap the power tubes from the DSL and put them into the Origin. I'm wondering if the trip from Chattanooga to East Atlanta rattled something in one of the power tubes.
     
  3. Triple Jim

    Triple Jim Guy Who Likes to Play Guitar Silver Member

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    I doubt it. Tubes are pretty rugged. But the swap is a good idea.
     
  4. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    I would've thought so, too. But maybe one of the tubes just went bad?
     
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  5. David Garner

    David Garner Senior Stratmaster

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    In addition to speaker efficiency, the amp’s design can make a difference. My old AC30 on the vintage setting was 22 watts. Same as my Deluxe Reverb and only 2 and 4 watts more than my Down Brownie and 18 Watt, respectively.

    It was way louder. It had Alnico Blues with 100db efficiency, but it was also a hot, class A amp that projected a lot more volume than similarly powered amps. It was louder than my Mesa Express 5:50 too.
     
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  6. nederemer

    nederemer Senior Stratmaster

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    To give you some perspective on speaker efficiency, the speaker in my twin is an electro voice SRO/15 15 inch speaker. It was marketed as being so efficient it was like doubling the output of your amp. See the ad below!

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    So you think the amp could be fine, just quieter than my DSL?
     
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  8. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    Did it come with the single 15? I thought Twins were loaded with 12's?
     
  9. Tone Deaf

    Tone Deaf Most Honored Senior Member

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    Just curious, what did you hope to gain over the DSL40CR by purchasing the Origen 50 ?
     
  10. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    I wanted a more vintage Marshall Plexi-like tone, both clean and overdriven. My DSL40C (Not the CR) nails everything from 80's hair metal, 90's grunge, modern metal, hard sounding Bonamassa-style blues, and is a great jazz-fusion amp. But it doesn't quite have that Zeppelin, Robin Trower, AC/DC, old school fuzzy Marshall tone. This Origin does a fine job with the tone, it just seems awfully quiet for a 50 watt all-tube amp.
     
  11. dirocyn

    dirocyn Senior Stratmaster

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    Speaker efficiency and the number of speakers make a big difference. Most instrument speakers are in the 98db ballpark, +/- about 6db.

    A 40w should be a little louder than 30w if the speakers are the same. But speaker efficiency can make a bigger difference, especially if the speakers are at the extreme.

    If the cabs have the same ohm load, you could try plugging one amp into the other's speakers for test purposes.
     
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  12. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    IMHO this is the root issue. Put a V30 in the Origin 50 and the volume output should be roughly the same.
     
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  13. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    Some speakers can handle peaks well above their rated wattage better than others and it also depends on how the amp is being used.

    If you plan to play at max volume with a ton of gain and distortion for hours on end I'd go with a speaker can that can handle more wattage so you don't burn up the voice coil.

    Conversely if you're typically playing at lower volume levels with less gain and distortion or for very brief periods of high volume/high gain then a 60w speaker will be fine.

    I can play a 50w Emi Cannabis Rex in a 60w amp because I'm not maxing out the volume or playing with tons of distortion. Most speakers can handle peaks well above their rating for brief periods of time. A CRex is one.

    Look at it like this. Your new Chevy or Ford or Honda or whatever may easily run at 120 mph or more for shorter periods of time without damaging the engine or transmission but I wouldn't run that same car balls to the wall in the Daytona 500 and expect it not to fail.
     
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  14. David Garner

    David Garner Senior Stratmaster

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    Absolutely.
     
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  15. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    Then in that case, I'll try the tubes anyways just to see, but otherwise, I'll start looking at speaker changes. Thinking either G12-M Creamback or G12T-75. Any recommendations are welcome.

    Thanks for all your help, fellas. Learned a lot!
     
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  16. nederemer

    nederemer Senior Stratmaster

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    Twins are loaded with two 12 inch speakers. It didn't come this way, but this is a common mod that people would do to twin reverbs especially lap steel players. So that's probably what happened there, as I am not the original owner.
     
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  17. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    I bet it sounds like thunder. Very CLEAN thunder.
     
  18. ChrisD

    ChrisD Senior Stratmaster

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    My AC30 with alnico blues leaves my 40w Marshall for dead lol. I know its 2 speakers vs 1 but I wouldn't judge an amp by the wattage it is rated at. There are many other factors. I'm quite sure my Class 5 could give my Ac15 a run for its money!
     
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  19. Cold Shot

    Cold Shot Strat-O-Master

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    I know that my HR DeVille 410 was so loud that I had to put a 12AT7 in V1 just to calm it down. I call it the Prozac treatment.
     
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  20. soulman969

    soulman969 Senior Stratmaster

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    A lower gain tube in V1 is an effective way to create a bit more clean headroom. I use a 5751 (70%) in my tube amps. You might try one in lieu of the 12AT7 (60%) which is more typically used as a driver tube or even a 12AY7 (45%) to clean it up even more.

    It has less impact on volume than I imagined it might and easily compensated for just by raising the master volume a hair.