Anyone play more "structured" songs in bands/jam groups?

Scott Baxendale

Most Honored Senior Member
Silver Member
May 20, 2020
9,474
Sante Fe, NM
Really curious which ones you do and how it's been working out.... Right now my dad and I have been playing with some older guys in town and we mostly cover the oldie stuff. It's fun but ultimately I get a little bored with it. Anytime I try to introduce any pop song made after 1976 with some sorta of slick jazzy change in it or a turnaround that hangs a little longer than usually they act like they don't wanna do it lol.
How old are you?

Us old guys generally like three chords and the truth much more than a bunch of extended turn arounds and complex chord structures or we would just play jazz. It’s what we grew up with.

But it’s all relative in terms of complexity. I find most good music to seem simple even if it’s not.

I think any of us old guys who started playing because we saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan are probably a bit jaded against a lot of modern, post internet, music primarily because we had better music to listen to growing up than exists in mainstream music today. When I was in the 9th grade my HS had a jukebox in the student commons room where we ate lunch and did other group activities.

The records on that jukebox included: Stone Free, Crosstown Traffic, Bob Seeger‘s Ramblin Gamblin Man, The Amboy Dukes, Journey to the Center of the Mind, Sympathy for the Devil, Creedence, etc. these songs were also played on top 40 radio. We just had better songs back then which isn’t to say there aren’t good songs now.

Even the concert experience was much better with much more freedom for the audience, much less security or rules, no cell phones causing distractions in the audience, not to mention much cheaper to attend. I saw the Birds, David Bromberg, Tracy Nelson & the Mother Earth, The Flying Burrito Brothers, Ramblin Jack Elliot, BB King, and a bunch of other lesser bands in a two day festival in Manhattan Kansas, where the ticket price was $12 for the 2 days.

As far as boredom in a band, the solution is to keep coming up with a new song to add to the song list every couple of practices and once that routine happens then the options for adding songs you like will probably open up. Or start a side project with some other youngsters where you are picking the tunes.

In the pre internet days a band had to be pretty great already before they could even attempt to record a record to be sold in the stores. There was also regional sound that existed across the country, where bands from Memphis sounded different from bands from Muscle Shoals, even though they are less than an hour away from each other, or bands from Chicago, or Nashville, or Kansas City, or New Orleans. Now those are just sounds in a giant pool on the internet.
Today every kid with a guitar is pumping content out on social media desperate to get their 15 minutes of fame by getting followers. So we are flooded with so much derivative content it’s impossible to wade through. And now all music is either a throwback or totally derivative. Greta Van Fleet is the perfect throwback example, so is Sturgil Simpson. It doesn’t mean they can’t play, it is just the quality of the songs for these bands will never quite be as good or the same coming from this flooded derivative pool of sounds and artists. This is all generalization however, and there is lots a great new music. I love everything My Morning Jacket or Wilco does.

sorry if I’m rambling…..lol.
 

davidKOS

an anchovy on the pizza of music
Silver Member
May 28, 2012
18,480
California
How old are you?

Us old guys generally like three chords and the truth much more than a bunch of extended turn arounds and complex chord structures or we would just play jazz. It’s what we grew up with.
Some of us like playing jazz...but I'm from New Orleans, it's the folk music of my village.
I think any of us old guys who started playing because we saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan are probably a bit jaded against a lot of modern, post internet, music primarily because we had better music to listen to growing up than exists in mainstream music today. When I was in the 9th grade my HS had a jukebox in the student commons room where we ate lunch and did other group activities.

The records on that jukebox included: Stone Free, Crosstown Traffic, Bob Seeger‘s Ramblin Gamblin Man, The Amboy Dukes, Journey to the Center of the Mind, Sympathy for the Devil, Creedence, etc. these songs were also played on top 40 radio. We just had better songs back then which isn’t to say there aren’t good songs now.
and I remember those days...those were the years of rock music I love most, from the Beatles on Sullivan to when disco and punk hit.
 

Quikstyl

Senior Stratmaster
Nov 10, 2018
2,163
Bay Area, CA
Really curious which ones you do and how it's been working out.... Right now my dad and I have been playing with some older guys in town and we mostly cover the oldie stuff. It's fun but ultimately I get a little bored with it. Anytime I try to introduce any pop song made after 1976 with some sorta of slick jazzy change in it or a turnaround that hangs a little longer than usually they act like they don't wanna do it
When I play with NCU it's originals, but not the Phish-type-wander-around-a-tune-for-20-minutes kind of originals. Each song has its structure. There are occasional free-form things thrown into the set depending on the gig, but always with a general idea of where it starts and stops.
For soloing I tend to have a couple spots of things I know I'm going to do then work freely around those.
Jamming blues all bets are off. Pick a key and go for it.
I've been blessed to have worked with some killer musicians in 35 years which in turn has made me a better player.
 

eclecticsynergy

Most Honored Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,014
NY
Any samples by chance?
Here's a baker's dozen snipped from longer jams. All improvised, nothing prearranged (though some eye-contact cues were happening, of course).

These recordings weren't intended for anyone else, just notebooked for our own future reference. Long solos were mostly omitted, though some shorter ones (or the beginnings of longer ones) remain. Plenty of warts and stalls, too - not polished. But randomness & chaos are part of the fun.

Very basic recordings - a few good mics straight into a digital recorder. No EQ, no compression, no effects, not even a mixer. Everything you hear is raw signal. (The last minute of one clip is played back in reverse; that's the only special effect except edits & fades.) These are taken from static rough mixes, too - there are balance issues, and some mics are hard-panned left & right. So, with those disclaimers, here are some snippets:













Coupla other outliers.

This one's kinda monotonous, but our drummer Jules really smokes beginning around 8:00 in.

long meditation song with a yoga drum
 
Last edited:

Seamus OReally

Looking for the Lost Chord
Silver Member
Feb 11, 2019
7,191
Way out west
My current jam project is purely improv: nothing prearranged, totally different every time. We just choose a key center or progression and as a jam evolves, changes sometimes will occur suddenly basically out of thin air.

We never know what directions our mood and inspiration will take us. The results range from bluesy to middle Eastern to modern fusion to atmospheric/ambient to fairly heavy rock to abstract free jazz.

It's fun working 'without a net,' running entirely on spontaneous combustion with nothing to fall back on. Can be challenging sometimes too. Our drummer loves to take us into odd time signatures. For me, fives and sevens are usually pretty easy to groove on. But in 11/4 or 15/8 it can be harder to find grooves I can really feel without playing too much from the brain and not enough from the heart.

The group consists of guitar, bass, drums, and a fourth member on flute/sax, an assortment of oddball wind & percussion, and electronics - he specializes in flyaway echo. We'll sometimes hook up a keyboard too, so we can wander over if inspiration strikes.

I trade off on guitar & bass with one of my oldest friends. We've been playing together on and off for five decades so there's good creative chemistry. Occasionally we'll both wind up on guitars (when things go ambient or Middle Eastern bass isn't always needed).

Sometimes we'll invite extra players to sit in. Two weeks ago it was jazz guitarist David Gilmore; this weekend we'll be four-piece on Saturday, but have a keyboardist coming for Sunday's sessions.

There's no telling where the Muses will take us. It's always a surprise. And an adventure.
A drummer and bass player and I (on keys) did a completely improv recording project years back that was huge fun, but it was hard to find jazz guys who could operate outside The Real Book.

I remember a session when we brought in a sax and guitar player, both jazz cats, who didn’t really know what to do with us. After recording for 10 minutes or so, Dave stopped tape and ran it back for instant playback. As they listened, the guitarist got a far-away look on his face and finally said, “Holy sh*t! That sounds like Black Market!!” The next take went a lot better.
 

eclecticsynergy

Most Honored Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,014
NY
A drummer and bass player and I (on keys) did a completely improv recording project years back that was huge fun, but it was hard to find jazz guys who could operate outside The Real Book.

I remember a session when we brought in a sax and guitar player, both jazz cats, who didn’t really know what to do with us. After recording for 10 minutes or so, Dave stopped tape and ran it back for instant playback. As they listened, the guitarist got a far-away look on his face and finally said, “Holy sh*t! That sounds like Black Market!!” The next take went a lot better.
The drummer I'm playing with studied back in the 70s under Narada Michael Walden, who played the drums on Black Market (the first couple of tunes, not the whole record - I think the rest of the album was Chester Thompson.)
 

Dr Improbable

Strat-O-Master
Aug 14, 2013
778
Wisconsin
Funny, I came across this thread right after my son popped up in messenger. He had a gig with a new band. Here's what he said:

Collin: yeah super dope show

Me: people like it??

Collin: we are new, the two before us were bs butt rock bands

Collin: so we came in and opened in 11/8 and all the MUSICIANS in the audience went insane
















Is 11/8 a hat size????? OJ, I'm kidding here, but I get it.
 
Top