Been saying it for years

[crankmeister]

You can't do that here.

The world is not a logomachy.

But ST is. It's mods all the way down here.

So I'm fine with whatever happens here.

 

[Rickety]

Okay.

But, with the tech, the margin of error is so significantly reduced when it's a matter of "ball inside box?" or "bat reaches plane on check swing?" or "foot touch base first?" And that's the point. Tech makes it easy, and we can all see it.

Also, if I may double down on your argument for the sake of rhetoric. You've completely undermined any anti-tech argument that relies on the "human error is part of the game" line. So, thank you for that.

That technology is not foolproof. It is not just as simple as "ball inside box" or "foot touch base first" there are millions upon millions of lines of code that have to determine where the ball is in all three dimensions based off of two dimensional imagery, compile it together and use preset distances and frame tracking to determine speed, if the ball is travelling too fast the technology may not even be able to register that the ball was even thrown and will continue to wait for input and a call won't even be made. What happens when dust gets on the sensors from the field and they no longer function properly? Are we going to send people in to wipe off the lenses between every pitch and every batter? What happens when the system shuts down because of some kind of error?

This isn't a simple "set it and forget it" solution to the problem that you're complaining about, this would take millions of dollars in research and development and will be prone to a myriad of failures and complications.

 

[crankmeister]

That technology is not foolproof. It is not just as simple as "ball inside box" or "foot touch base first" there are millions upon millions of lines of code that have to determine where the ball is in all three dimensions based off of two dimensional imagery, compile it together and use preset distances and frame tracking to determine speed, if the ball is travelling too fast the technology may not even be able to register that the ball was even thrown and will continue to wait for input and a call won't even be made. What happens when dust gets on the sensors from the field and they no longer function properly? Are we going to send people in to wipe off the lenses between every pitch and every batter? What happens when the system shuts down because of some kind of error?

This isn't a simple "set it and forget it" solution to the problem that you're complaining about, this would take millions of dollars in research and development and will be prone to a myriad of failures and complications.

Have you been watching baseball on tv lately? The rectangle is there. Making it 3D wouldn't be difficult at all.

Or football, where they have those lines graphed over the field?

Where does "wiping sensors/lenses" factor into any of this?

And now you're renegotiating what's meant by "servicing" the tech.

Can't talk to someone who redefines the terms mid-discussion.

The tech is here. All we need to do is defer to it when applicable -- balls and strikes, spotting the football, fair or foul, etc.

As a fan, I'd rather see the technician get paid to keep the calls accurate than an ump to make bad calls and "judgement" calls.

 

[lammie200]

...This isn't a simple "set it and forget it" solution to the problem that you're complaining about, this would take millions of dollars in research and development and will be prone to a myriad of failures and complications.

I think that you are seriously underestimating what exists in the world of technology today. Even if they only left pitch calls to the home plate umpire and automated everything else it would be a vast improvement. That said, I don't see any reason not to automate the entire game and use the umpires as back up in case there is a system failure. In every major sport the officials have too much power in controlling the game and the outcome of that control is many times the result of ineptitude.

And to the person that said that this would cause a need to automate every other level of baseball officiating that is ludicrous. Totally irrelevant.

 

[Rickety]

Have you been watching baseball on tv lately? The rectangle is there. Making it 3D wouldn't be difficult at all.

Or football, where they have those lines graphed over the field?

Where does "wiping sensors/lenses" factor into any of this?

And now you're renegotiating what's meant by "servicing" the tech.

Can't talk to someone who redefines the terms mid-discussion.

The tech is here. All we need to do is defer to it when applicable -- balls and strikes, spotting the football, fair or foul, etc.

As a fan, I'd rather see the technician get paid to keep the calls accurate than an ump to make bad calls and "judgement" calls.

The tech is not there... that's what I'm trying to tell you, the box on the screen is just a graphical overlay for you, the viewer, so that you can visualize the strike zone and has nothing to do with how the umpire calls the ball. Same for those lines that delineate the line of scrimmage and the 1st down line in football, it's just a graphical overlay so that the viewer can see where it is. Those graphics are placed on there by a person who is running broadcasting software like that from Newtek or OBS, they just put a picture on top of the camera feed.

The technology would need to be made specifically for baseball and it would require tons of sensors throughout the entire field to accomplish what you're talking about. Proximity sensors, acceleration sensors, photoelectric sensors... the list goes on and on and on. Not to mention the fact that they would have to figure out a way to implement all of these different technologies without getting in the way of the players playing the game. It's just simpler, cheaper, and makes more sense to continue using umpires.

 

[lammie200]

...fair or foul, etc...

 

[crankmeister]

More human error. And ego.

Drives me nuts. It's so avoidable.

 

[crankmeister]

The tech is not there... that's what I'm trying to tell you, the box on the screen is just a graphical overlay for you, the viewer, so that you can visualize the strike zone and has nothing to do with how the umpire calls the ball. Same for those lines that delineate the line of scrimmage and the 1st down line in football, it's just a graphical overlay so that the viewer can see where it is. Those graphics are placed on there by a person who is running broadcasting software like that from Newtek or OBS, they just put a picture on top of the camera feed.

The technology would need to be made specifically for baseball and it would require tons of sensors throughout the entire field to accomplish what you're talking about. Proximity sensors, acceleration sensors, photoelectric sensors... the list goes on and on and on. Not to mention the fact that they would have to figure out a way to implement all of these different technologies without getting in the way of the players playing the game. It's just simpler, cheaper, and makes more sense to continue using umpires.

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

The game right now as we see it on tv. Except no ump behind the plate. Add another camera here or there. Keep a couple umps on the field for general purposes, arbitration, whatever.

It was cheaper for people to just use their scythes. But in the long run, upgrading the tech was a good long term investment. It made for more accurate and efficient work.

Or I suppose you posted that from your cave?

 

[micmurph]

All this talk about computers and monitoring, make me want to get back to nature. I’m going camping.

 

[crankmeister]

https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/If-Giants-beat-Dodgers-win-World-Series-Vegas-16520547.php

 

[Rickety]

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

The game right now as we see it on tv. Except no ump behind the plate. Add another camera here or there. Keep a couple umps on the field for general purposes, arbitration, whatever.

It was cheaper for people to just use their scythes. But in the long run, upgrading the tech was a good long term investment. It made for more accurate and efficient work.

Or I suppose you posted that from your cave?

That is apples to oranges, what does baseball produce that needs to be produced more efficiently? It's entertainment and nothing else. It is not as simple as "add a few more cameras here or there" I work in tech and it is much much more complicated than that, there are sensors involved, complex coding, tech support, equipment support, any camera that would be able to keep up with a 98mph fastball would be extremely expensive and you want multiple of them on every field?? The tech simply isn't there yet. Do the individual pieces required to do it exist? Yes, but putting them all together and scaling them to that level just isn't there yet.

 

[El Gobernador]

The world is not a logomachy.

Sure it is. People dissect words used all the time. Looking for meanings/leanings .

Plain and simple, here your speech is limited, and in the rules you are asked not to broach subjects that encourage a topic.

"POLITICAL" POSTS:
At Strat-Talk a political post is any post that directly or indirectly encourages discussion of politics and the larger public policies that are political in nature - an example: Global Climate Change.

So watch where you chuck that pebble.

 

[lammie200]

Two teams that won the same number of games up until that point. Is this how you wanted the umpires to end the game?

 

[crankmeister]

Sure it is. People dissect words used all the time. Looking for meanings/leanings .

Plain and simple, here your speech is limited, and in the rules you are asked not to broach subjects that encourage a topic.



So watch where you chuck that pebble.

Yeah, I get all that. But the world is of materials and action. ST is just words. It is literally nothing but words.

A little saltwater pond.

Sure it is. People dissect words used all the time. Looking for meanings/leanings .

Plain and simple, here your speech is limited, and in the rules you are asked not to broach subjects that encourage a topic.



So watch where you chuck that pebble.

I get all that.

The world is materials, actions and work.

ST is just words. Inconsequential.

My thoughts on this are becoming complicated beyond what ST and its mods would be willing to accommodate. For the sake of simplicity, what I've learned here is that it's not so much a topic as it is one's take on a topic that constitutes out of bounds. The implications are upsetting. But again, luckily it's merely a website, hopefully not a microcosm. The parts of the pond that reflect the actual work done are worth sticking around for.

 

[AntStrat]

Yeah, I get all that. But the world is of materials and action. ST is just words. It is literally nothing but words.

A little saltwater pond.


I get all that.

The world is materials, actions and work.

ST is just words. Inconsequential.

My thoughts on this are becoming complicated beyond what ST and its mods would be willing to accommodate. For the sake of simplicity, what I've learned here is that it's not so much a topic as it is one's take on a topic that constitutes out of bounds. The implications are upsetting. But again, luckily it's merely a website, hopefully not a microcosm. The parts of the pond that reflect the actual work done are worth sticking around for.

ST IS a microcosm, no different than a neighborhood bar or any other gathering place.

 

[crankmeister]

ST IS a microcosm, no different than a neighborhood bar or any other gathering place.

There's more to being a microcosm than that.

I do not know if ST is a large enough sample size of "society" to be a proper microcosm. And in some ways, I hope not.

 

[Nate D]

We have the same discussions over here about the use of technology in football/soccer and rugby.
Oddly enough, it hasn't stopped controversy over calls - and I get the strong sense that a lot of fans LIKE the controversy. It seems to be part of the game.

This is totally how I feel. It’s part of the game.

 

[AntStrat]

There's more to being a microcosm than that.

I do not know if ST is a large enough sample size of "society" to be a proper microcosm. And in some ways, I hope not.

Not anymore.

Technology has changed the world and indeed an internet site can be a microcosm.

 

[lammie200]

This is totally how I feel. It’s part of the game.

In reality there are always three teams playing on the field. Two are represented by cute mascots and the other is the officiating. Always difficult when the officiating wins.

 

[Mansonienne]

One example of where technology has improved the game is football (soccer).

For some years now the ball has been fitted with a sensor that indicates to the ref when it has completely crossed the goal line (to score a goal).

It works perfectly and nobody has complained. It has certainly avoided some of the old "was it a goal" cant.

There is no delay, it's a goal or not.

Yes, that works.
However, this offisdr