best tone cap?

[woodsie831]

I generally play with my tone on 10 always. Some minor rolloff if I'm feeling like a slightly warmer sound. Anyone actually play with their tone rolled all the way down? Based on this thread thats the only time the cap comes into play unless I misunderstood. Voodoo to me....I've never messed with the stock caps that come in my guitars.

me too. i might turn the bridge down to 7 or 8 sometimes to take the edge off it but, for the most part, i keep it at 10. well, except when i want to do that pickup selector switch trick in Voodoo Chile. i find that, with the .01, i have to turn it almost all the way down to see much difference from dimed.

 

[Stratosfied]

yeah, that's a little surprising. i put a .01 in yesterday and i could swear it's ice picky at 10. i have to turn it down to 5 to get to where i think i was with a .022. maybe it's just me.

Did you really put in a .01? The typical value is .1.

 

[peskypesky]

Crazy Tone Thing - Planet Z

YouTube - Guitar Tone Capacitors, part 1: Evaluating Material Types

Capacitor Shoot-Out Part 2!

 

[tjk3052]

so, what you're saying is that there is no difference in tone, effected by the cap, when the tone control is at 10?

Yep. A guitar circuit has a resonant peak at some relatively high frequency. When you start turning the tone knob, that resonant peak will be squashed but remain at the same frequency. Same thing happens when you run a really long cable or several true bypass pedals together, your guitar will sound darker because that peak is lowered. At some point, the capacitor's relationship in the circuit causes the peak to change frequency, shifting it lower and filtering off the high frequencies. This is why the cap size doesn't matter at '10', the cap only affects the darkest setting of a tone control, and bigger pots sound brighter.

Terry Downs has some good info on his site showing a guitar circuit analysed using PSPICE:
PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

 

[sjtalon]

what is the best tone cap for strat?

Well that really is a hard question to answer as there are a lot of things to consider.

I say to think of the cap as a tool, used in the circuit of the tone pot, and you need the right tool for the job.


Some Strat pups are REAL harsh, so in order to get them darker, some
use a .1 µF to get results. That what Fender used in the early years.

I have a Strat I had 57/62's in and used that value with good results.

I have another Strat with CS 69's and have a .50 in that one.

I have a Strat with American pups in and the .022 ( like most all Fender's have in them now) works great on that on.

So the factors are:
How shrill are the pups, because to get them darker would require a LARGER value cap.

How do you want your tone control to work ??

If you play blues or Jazz and you want it to get pretty muddy, right away, then the .1 or .050 is going to do the job.
Example:
I have a Telecaster with a .015 in it because on that I don't use the tone much and when I do, I want just a subtle change.


So it's based on how you want the tool to work, what results do you need.

Think of the tone capacitor as a screen you pour sand though, and that you can buy screen with different hole sizes, so you can choose how big a sand grain passes though. Bigger holes, more gets through.


As you turn your tone control down, the cap comes into play around 7-5. The "size" of the cap (screen) is going to determine how many high frequencies get bleed to ground (removed from the signal) thus darkening the tone.

I took my first Strat and ran a wire from the tone pot terminal out the hole to the trem block route in the back of the body, then tried different caps. All you need is one wire as the other end of the cap can be attached to the spring claw. When you find the cap you like you can just tape it up and tuck it in there, put the cover on and it is out of site. Next time you change strings, you can remove the pickguard and solder it in.

 

[rcole_sooner]

Crazy Tone Thing - Planet Z

YouTube - Guitar Tone Capacitors, part 1: Evaluating Material Types

Capacitor Shoot-Out Part 2!

Cool, Pesky! So much for tone cap not effecting the circuit. It might not have been huge, but there was a difference.

 

[kgbeast]

Keep in mind that not everything you read on this forum is accurate. Some of it is based on ones uneducated opinions and lots of it are misunderstandings of facts published elsewhere on the internet.

... you can not read an article written in English without knowing the language, but no one can stop you from giving it your best shot. Same applies to physics...

 

[Thin69]

Cool, Pesky! So much for tone cap not effecting the circuit. It might not have been huge, but there was a difference.

That was also a 500K pot not a 250K used for the test.

 

[kgbeast]

That was also a 500K pot not a 250K used for the test.

... meaning that with 250K the difference would have been even more pronounced.

 

[tjk3052]

Again...With cap tolerances 20% or more, especially with older PIO caps, you cannot simply compare caps based on their assumed value.

Listening to the highly compressed audio of a YT clip is also not the best. It IS a good idea to get under the pickguard and try it out for yourself. Trial and error can get you to the tone you like best, which is all that matters.

The problem is when people watch a YT clip and then speak as experts about tone circuits when they don't have a basic understanding of electrical theory. But I don't think the people that sell $30 capacitors are complaining :mrgreen:

 

[kgbeast]

5% is more of a usual tolerance and you can pick one up from mouser for about 63¢... Now, whomever wants to impress his girlfriend... Those are in stock

CMR08F473JODP Cornell Dubilier Mica Capacitors

 

[woodsie831]

Did you really put in a .01? The typical value is .1.

I did. it was based on what i read somewhere from someone who said they liked it. it was just to try it. i'm not sure i like it. it sounds a little shrill on the bridge but my CS 69s always did. turning the tone down does almost nothing until you hit about 4. i just ordered a bunch of orange drops, .015, .022,.033 and .047 and i still have the .01. I'm going to solder a lead in place of the cap and A/B/C/D/E them all and find out which works for me.

 

[tjk3052]

5% is more of a usual tolerance and you can pick one up from mouser for about 63¢... Now, whomever wants to impress his girlfriend... Those are in stock

CMR08F473JODP Cornell Dubilier Mica Capacitors

That must be what they use in a Klon :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

[stratrocker1988]

I like a Sprague Orange Drop in a .047

 

[O)))]

Crazy Tone Thing - Planet Z

YouTube - Guitar Tone Capacitors, part 1: Evaluating Material Types

Capacitor Shoot-Out Part 2!

That man couldn't have done a better job in making a video about the differences in caps. However, it just leads me to believe that they have very little effect on tone. I listened using a decent set of headphones and they all sounded similar. I even went in to this with an open mind, hoping that a small expenditure could lead to a big leap in tone. I was disappointed.

 

[peskypesky]

That man couldn't have done a better job in making a video about the differences in caps. However, it just leads me to believe that they have very little effect on tone. I listened using a decent set of headphones and they all sounded similar. I even went in to this with an open mind, hoping that a small expenditure could lead to a big leap in tone. I was disappointed.

i'm with you. i think all this to-do about tone caps is a bunch of wishful thinking.

 

[woodsie831]

i'm with you. i think all this to-do about tone caps is a bunch of wishful thinking.

add it to the list of tone myths.

 

[rcole_sooner]

I can't believe y'all did not hear the differences?

I heard more differences here, than I did from the D. Allen pup demo a while back.

Eh, to each his own, I guess. That is what makes music so wonderful.

 

[sjtalon]

Ya know this subject is SO BEAT TO DEATH but really;

So let's just say that some people have had the good Lord bless them with awesome auditory powers. These chosen ones can pick out differences in what frequencies are removed from a signal. They also can notice slight deciBel changes. That's great.

So because of this we (sometimes including me) nonbelievers argue that when a tone control is on 10, the cap in the circuit does NOTHING. If you by a cap from Radio Shack for 1.49 it does a great job. Then the purists go and by a Gibson bumblebee for $100.

Then you can throw out the "people will believe what they want to believe" OR, theory says different components should sound different, therefore they must. Also like pickups, you can blame the argument on things being subjective.

So in the end, whichever camp you belong to, you stand your ground on why these beliefs hold true.

Now to my point, in short.

Cap A sounds like this.

Cap B sounds like that.

Based on the fact that the listener can actually (and truly) HEAR a difference.

Well isn't that great, but really, what does this all come down to ??

A difference.

That's all, difference.

The only thing that really matters with things being different is, does that difference REALLY truly matter ?? How can one say that that difference is better, or worse ?

Splitting hairs is what it is.

 

[Boris Bubbanov]

Callaham will provide you with whatever is authentic, or whatever modern value you like.

I've got mostly .022 microfarads in Strats. Orange drops, because they're easier to find if dropped on the shop floor. Sprague's. But there's .015, .033, and .039s out there and they can all be tried, for those looking to tinker. The main reason I avoid the Radio Shack stuff is for trading reasons due to country of origin. And I can't see them on the floor. :^)