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Can we debunk the whole “Hand-wound pickups sound better because of how much you paid for them”

Discussion in 'Pickup Forum' started by diverse379, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Dadocaster

    Dadocaster Dr. Stratster

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    Are you?
     
  2. Bodean

    Bodean Just A Simple Man

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    No.
     
  3. montemerrick

    montemerrick no earthly reason why

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  4. CigBurn

    CigBurn Total Hack

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    Pickups..

    One link in a chain of many links.
     
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  5. drillzzz

    drillzzz Strat-Talk Member

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    I upgraded to Abby handwounds from Lindy Fralin and most importantly bought an upgraded combo amplifier all hand made point to point with Mercury components, celestial 10 gold, in mahogany cabin....

    The difference between before and after which was a Blues Junior is night and day.

    Pick ups handwound have a dynamic feel and produce more characterized tones in my opinion. However it’s all in the amp to get that biggest changes in sound besides the amount of time you decide to practice playing. I upgraded the amp before pickups and that changed the tone of the Fralins but once the Abby’s went in the tone and response from amp changed my playing. I think everyone should own 2-3 amps in order to become more familiar with how tone really changes. Instead of having 10 guitars and one amplifier and changing out pick ups which have just a slight but perceivable change in tone.
     
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  6. rjhalsey

    rjhalsey Strat-Talker Vendor Member

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  7. Nuno

    Nuno Strat-Talk Member

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  8. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    I find it difficult to agree with what Mayer says.

    He says that pickups "don't make that much difference", and yet it is undeniably true that different pickups sound different (forget hand wound vs machine wound for the moment).

    I have 4 different examples of strat pickups and I could put them in the same guitar and you would easily tell the difference.

    So I'm not sure what he's on about...
     
  9. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Stratmaster

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    He's mostly right though, most of what distinguishes one pickup from another can be duplicated through electronic means. That's how the Flishman Fluence works. Most of the difference owes to a different resonant peak and Q factor. You can alter the resonant peak by changing the parallel inductance or capacitance, and you can alter the Q factor by changing the parallel resistance.

    I don't think those switching schemes have failed to become popular because they don't work, but because guitarists fetishize vintage control layouts that don't involve minor pickup tweaks, and the difference is so small that most guitarists would say "so what?", but the same small difference underlies pickup swapping. For some reason, small changes are OK when it comes to a pickup swap, but when it comes to switches and knobs, they are expected to make a huge difference. It's all psychological. In A/B sound tests, people can barely tell the sound difference between one Strat set and another, imagine how underwhelming it would be to have a switch that also did so little.

    Another example of the equivalence, suppose you take a humbucker and you install a series/parallel switch, the inductance in series in 6 henries, when you put it in parallel it drops to two henries. At that point, it sounds the same as a humbucker wire in series if it were only wound up to 2 henries. You're essentially switching between two different pickups. Unfortunately, most guitarists don't love the sound of a humbucker that is wound to only 2 henries.
     
  10. Nuno

    Nuno Strat-Talk Member

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    Well, the way I interpret his idea, maybe Roger Mayer finds that after those woundcounts, wire etc the pickups may have different flavours, but they are about the same - after some basic minimum quality and specs, what really matters is the guitar, amp and the player
     
  11. Antigua

    Antigua Senior Stratmaster

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    Back in those days people had a more logical take on pickups: add more wire, lose treble, simple as that. All the "lovingly hand scatter wound in a small shop in a working class town by someone who has researched all the vintage secrets" was an invention that came later. I'm not sure when it started, but I know Lollar and Fralin were the most successful, initially. When you look at DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan's early product line ups, they were a lot more matter-of-fact, too, but they changed with the times, and started dressing their products with mythologies. They thought guitarists wanted to buy simple parts, but discovered they trying to buy the dream.

    I have a feeling the same phenomenon applies to guitar amps, but that one is harder to prove, because amps are a lot more complicated than a pickup. For example, the magical insistence that only tube amps deliver warm tones, that Tweed Fenders actually sound good, or that only a Marshall can deliver British crunch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  12. BuddhaFingas

    BuddhaFingas Strat-O-Master

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    Thus far, the thread can be easily summed up via Niven's corrolary to Clarke's Third Law.
     
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  13. Cyberi4n

    Cyberi4n Strat-Talker

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    this!
     
  14. Duane_the_tub

    Duane_the_tub Strat-O-Master

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    Care to elaborate on this?
     
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  15. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Do it or screw it.

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    So pickups don't matter. Wood doesn't matter. Finish doesn't matter.

    Nothing matters.

    Close down the site, we're done here.
     
  16. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Do it or screw it.

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    Thanks for not providing that for us. Or maybe I'm the only doofus around who isn't intimately familiar with that corrolary.
     
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  17. Malurkey

    Malurkey Senior Stratmaster

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    "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

    Although Niven is also known for the following law:

    “Stories to end all stories on a given topic, don't.”

    Which may also apply to this thread... ;)
     
  18. Paperback Rocker

    Paperback Rocker Do it or screw it.

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    Much appreciated.
     
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  19. BuddhaFingas

    BuddhaFingas Strat-O-Master

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    Didn't mean to leave you hanging. I was going for an ironic pseudo-erudition sort of vibe.

    As Malurkey said, Niven's corollary is "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

    Clarke's Third law is "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    Niven producing his corollary led Clarke to formulate his less-famous Fourth Law, which is really the payoff on the subject:



    "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
     
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  20. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster Vendor Member

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    I dont know how to put it....

    The Classic Series pups give me ju
    Last I check all the artist in the 50s and 60s were using stock pups or factory pups.....



    They didnt get no bowtiq crap.
     
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