Caught between the horns of a dilemma.

Strat Jacket

Senior Stratmaster
May 11, 2018
2,788
Illinois
Easy, fellers...let's clear up a few inconsistencies, since I'm the infamous "O.P."
First of all, I never said this guitar was a piece of (add your favorite expletive) or that it sounded like one, for that matter. It hums, much like other single coils only worse, due to my hurried wiring job and inferior pots I installed 40 years ago, and the Fat Strat is noticeably louder the the stock pups. And the neck pup went quiet on me, but after ohming it out it seems to be good. The fretboard and frets are worn, but I think Dan can correct that. After all, that's what he does. As for playing like (****), of course it does with the neck in the condition it's in. The body looks rough only due to a quick wood filler job, again 40 years ago.
Second, the body. It needs an inlay. That's not the worst or hardest job for anyone to do. And it allows me to keep the stock neck and body together, which I believe should be.
Third, there is nothing wrong with the Schallers installed, other than not being original. They are far better equipment than the Klusons ever were, or could be, and replacement tuners are probably the #1 mod done to most classic guitars, and may drop the collectible value some, but not that much.
Fourth, I paid $150.00 for this guitar. In no way, shape or form would I ever consider paying $20K or even $10k for any vintage guitar. If I had that kind of bread I'd pay my house off.
Fifth, my gray bobbin pups are dated correctly, including the empty bobbin. Getting that professionally rewound would leave only pickguard, pots, switch, screws and wiring to replace and I see no issue with aged vintage repro parts for that.
I have no intentions of selling this, and if I did I would fully disclose to any buyer as to what was original and what was not. I also discussed this with my son over Thanksgiving dinner tonight and he says if and when it goes to him, he would never sell it. So he doesn't care about restored value whatsoever.
Last but not least; this guitar has a history with me...40 years of history. Parting it out is not an option I'm even considering at this point in time. Neither is spending several thousands of dollars trying to make every single screw, spring and wire authentic vintage, when that in itself is phony as they didn't come off this '65 Strat. If it looks, plays and sounds like a vintage 1965 Strat, that will be good enough for me.
Sorry if I misled anyone with my intentions, and thanks to all of you for your comments, suggestions, ideas and comments.
 

ReedRainey

Strat-Talk Member
Mar 21, 2014
90
Fernandina Beach, FL
The internet forums are riff with players who either sold or butchered one of their first guitars, or favorites and later came to regret it. I have a first one that got away because I tried to re-engineer a cut-out on a 1954 Epiphone Century jazz box. I still regret losing it after 50 years. I now have much greater skill in my decisions and what modifications I entertain, and there are more companies selling aftermarket trinkets (tuners, fretwire, pots, etc.) than ever. So it is nostalgia for some of us out here that we'd like to re-visit those guitars and do them "right". So pls think hard about not restoring your axe in question or selling it, or disassembling it and selling off the parts on eBay, etc. I believe you'll be sorry later on, like some of us out here. Save it, straighten it out, fix it, honor it, and don't sell it. The smiles you get after doing this go much farther than the sad eyes you have about it presently.
 

Groundwire

Strat-O-Master
Apr 16, 2021
744
Oregon
Easy, fellers...let's clear up a few inconsistencies, since I'm the infamous "O.P."
First of all, I never said this guitar was a piece of (add your favorite expletive) or that it sounded like one, for that matter. It hums, much like other single coils only worse, due to my hurried wiring job and inferior pots I installed 40 years ago, and the Fat Strat is noticeably louder the the stock pups. And the neck pup went quiet on me, but after ohming it out it seems to be good. The fretboard and frets are worn, but I think Dan can correct that. After all, that's what he does. As for playing like (****), of course it does with the neck in the condition it's in. The body looks rough only due to a quick wood filler job, again 40 years ago.
Second, the body. It needs an inlay. That's not the worst or hardest job for anyone to do. And it allows me to keep the stock neck and body together, which I believe should be.
Third, there is nothing wrong with the Schallers installed, other than not being original. They are far better equipment than the Klusons ever were, or could be, and replacement tuners are probably the #1 mod done to most classic guitars, and may drop the collectible value some, but not that much.
Fourth, I paid $150.00 for this guitar. In no way, shape or form would I ever consider paying $20K or even $10k for any vintage guitar. If I had that kind of bread I'd pay my house off.
Fifth, my gray bobbin pups are dated correctly, including the empty bobbin. Getting that professionally rewound would leave only pickguard, pots, switch, screws and wiring to replace and I see no issue with aged vintage repro parts for that.
I have no intentions of selling this, and if I did I would fully disclose to any buyer as to what was original and what was not. I also discussed this with my son over Thanksgiving dinner tonight and he says if and when it goes to him, he would never sell it. So he doesn't care about restored value whatsoever.
Last but not least; this guitar has a history with me...40 years of history. Parting it out is not an option I'm even considering at this point in time. Neither is spending several thousands of dollars trying to make every single screw, spring and wire authentic vintage, when that in itself is phony as they didn't come off this '65 Strat. If it looks, plays and sounds like a vintage 1965 Strat, that will be good enough for me.
Sorry if I misled anyone with my intentions, and thanks to all of you for your comments, suggestions, ideas and comments.
Very well said. I think one of the things about forums like these is that you have all different kinds of people of different ages, backgrounds, and POVs. Just about every one of us loves guitars a lot, and has very strong feelings about them. Everyone also wants to help and naturally thinks their suggestion is the best course of action.

There is no “right” way when it comes to your own guitars. I can personally totally understand where someone like @GuitarTalk is coming from and I do have a couple of 100% original vintage guitars that I’d never want to modify.

But I also have a very different opinion on partscasters and choppers, and that’s cool too. I have a couple choppers myself and personally helped restore my Father In Law’s ‘67 Smuggler’s Tele, and ‘58 J50, both of which, like yours, were acquired for around $150, and had been finish stripped, modded, etc. Guess what? They both play and sound awesome now, even though the Tele in particular has quite a few repro parts.

There’s certainly some element of pride of ownership in an all original vintage guitar, especially from the mindset of being a caretaker for something that will outlive you. There is also a pride of ownership that comes from having a great instrument that is the best it can be and inspires you to play. This could be a ‘59 Burst or a Squier Affinity (great guitars, btw) and it doesn’t matter one bit. Neither of these types of pride is superior to the other, though both could elicit strong opinions from both sides.

I can also totally see where @Butcher of Strats is coming from, and I have no issue with modern repro parts, which I have on a few guitars. That said, some of us, including myself, do get excited about a crusty old set of tuners. I love old parts, the workmanship that went into crafting them, and the satisfaction of cleaning and restoring them. I enjoying finding an old set of sticky Klusons and cleaning/lubricating them and getting them turning freely again. Side rant, but old tuners are unfairly maligned. Truth is, 99% of tuning problems come from the nut and setup, and it’s almost never an issue with the tuners.

Anyways, long post, but I guess my main point is that there is no right way, and whatever you can do to make your ‘65 Strat bring you the most possible joy, is ultimately probably the best thing to do, unless of course that would involve installing a Floyd Rose….😉
 

Butcher of Strats

Senior Stratmaster
Feb 28, 2022
2,983
Maine
Yeah I love old parts too and for years made all my guitars out of old messed up broken worn out parts I fixed up and put back together.

More than saying old rusty tuners are not better tuners/ will not make a guitar better, I was saying that spending big money to buy "original parts" will NOT make the guitar "all original again".

So once a vintage guitar is no longer all original, and can never return to the all original condition, the owner can do as they please with it, within their means; and if desired, a vintage Fender can be sold in virtually any condition with price adjusted for how good a guitar is is visually and functionally, and how far it is from all original.
But again, old parts from some other guitar are just old parts, not original parts, unless the seller tries to pass it off as having original parts. Depending on the buyer, the drop in value due to original pickups being gone, may or may not come back up due to buying same year pickups from some other guitar.
Buyers who pay a premium for an all original Fender due to the fact that those are rare, will not pay all original value if a guitarbis not that known rare thing.

Which is why we have terms like "untouched solder joints".

Many questions get asked like how much value is lost to a refin and how much value is lost to replaced hardware.

The fact remains that all original pre CBS Fender guitars are rare, and what makes them valuable is the fact that most got modded, broken and repaired, or refinished over the decades.
Swapping parts is a mod.
Putting in old parts from some other vintage guitar is just another mod.
No future parts swapping can undo what was done, originality is gone for good.

Personally I value original pickups more than any other part besides neck & body in the context of a complete vintage guitar.
A vintage Fender guitar,
is generally defined by neck and body that left the factory together and stayed together.

Rewound pickups do not bother me but will reduce the value a very small amount on an otherwise all original Fender.
Rewinds do not hurt vintage tone at all IME.
While old windings are arguably expendables, the wire insulation degrades and may even have been damaged during winding, so one can at least debate the idea that rewound pickups are like new frets and new strings.

The ideas expressed on the internet are all over the place and include a small camp who feels that replacing worn out frets hurts originality and value.
This stuff gets debated into oblivion!
 

Strat Jacket

Senior Stratmaster
May 11, 2018
2,788
Illinois
Well, I for one appreciate everyone's input, point of view and candor with expressing their opinions. As for me, I believe I feel like I've settled a lot of the questions, uneasiness and debate surrounding this old relic, and for the moment have decided #1 priority rests on the original neck, depending on cost and what kind of job Dan can do on it (if he is still willing to tackle this project). Because without the original neck, it truly becomes a box of parts assembled. And I'll take it from there.
Suffice it to say, if and when she is all reassembled, it should look, play and sound like a vintage, road worn '65 Strat that has seen a thousand smoky barrooms, and been flogged mercilessly over the last 5 decades. Because regardless of who the PO was, this poor thing has been rode hard and put away wet and I don't want to take that charisma away. It's part of the charm and magic of this particular diamond in the rough. So do stay tuned, as I believe things are going to start ticking over after the holidays, hopefully in rapid succession. I ain't gettin' any younger and I've already wasted too much time as it is.
 


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