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Do you consider this to be "good acoustic tone" for a Strat?

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by 57Strat777, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. StratMike10

    StratMike10 Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I probably have some of the crappiest, tinnitus infested, damaged, and undiscerning tone-unsensitive ears this side of heaven, and I can hear the difference.

     
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  2. Lone Woof

    Lone Woof Senior Stratmaster

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    Since you brought up harmonics, there's something I've been meaning to bring up:

    We expect to get harmonics at 5, 7, and 12. But what about guitars that can produce strong harmonics at other frets, as well? More harmonics = more harmonically rich?

    EDIT: I mistakenly typed 3 and 5, when I meant 5 and 7.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  3. nutball73

    nutball73 Senior Stratmaster

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    You may be able to hear the difference between those particular samples of wood.

    However given that wood is an organic thing, there is no predicting that one sample of Alder will even sound like another sample of Alder, let alone different from some other wood.
     
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  4. gofmusic

    gofmusic Senior Stratmaster

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    That is a usable sound for a song actually :) I can picture a songs intro being played like that.
     
  5. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    I appreciate the effort illustrated by the wood test above, but the reality is, it proves nothing more than those four guitars sound differently.

    There exists nothing even vaguely resembling a scientifically controlled test. And not being a controlled test, it presents nothing more than one anecdotal demonstration. it would require hundreds of similar such demonstrations to elicit any useable, predictable results.

    Guys just don't understand the infinite variety of variables that exist in such a "garage" test.. and then, using only one example of each type of lumber, Sorry... but nothing has been proven... the apparent conclusion of the test is if you prefer the sound of one of the types of lumber, just go get a guitar made of it... I'm sure most realize when sampling guitars, you can play several of similar construction and find quite different results.

    as far as harmonics go... they exist to virtually infinity, BUT since the frequency range of most better rigs drops precipitously once the response rage of the amplifier's speaker is met, around 6000 hZ, it doesn't matter at all. They aren't reproduced, thus they do not exist... it's not the ability to generate the harmonic, it's the ability of the sonic confluence to reproduce it at a useable volume...

    Thus if a harmonic's frequency is at say, 3000 hZ, and the piece of wood is sonically dead at that 3K point, that harmonic is lost .. conversely if the wood is usually resonant at 3K.. you could well finding yourself fighting a "wolf note". Thus a compromise and adaptation is required..

    I got involved in these discussions going all the way back to the days of BBS on the burgeoning internet... then on to AOL in the 90's, which gaveway to the excellent forums we have today... that's almost 30 years.... yet there has been one consistent flaw in the "logic" of guys chasing the sonic aspirations haunting our thinking... that is of Myopia...

    Guys get one facet locked in their "headlights" and loose sight completely that in a guitar it's never just one thing... it's an orchestra... and a deficiency in one area can easily be made up in another..

    Choose whatever wood you like and build your guitar around it's characteristics,

    rk
     
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  6. 57Strat777

    57Strat777 Strat-Talker

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    Ron - I have to admit that if any guitar maker tried to tell me harmonic overtones are irrelevant because they are not reproduced through an amp, I would never consider purchasing one of their guitars. I know for me a harmonically rich guitar translates into an inspiring guitar that I want to play and not put down, and a harmonically dull guitar translates into a guitar that is a lot of work to play and results in no inspiration. Playing a harmonically rich guitar is like running with the wind in your back, and playing a harmonically dull guitar is like running in mud.
     
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  7. 57Strat777

    57Strat777 Strat-Talker

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    I think the most important lesson from StratMike10's video is different pieces of wood sound different, proving the wood body of the guitar does have an effect on how the guitar sounds to the listener.
     
  8. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    that's not what I said... I suggested that harmonics occur at specific frequencies. IF a hunk of wood has sonic characteristics, either good or bad, that also occur at those frequencies, those characteristics can be magnified or nulled by those characteristics of the wood..

    Guys talk about the resonance of a hunk of wood like it's ALWAYS a positive, it is not .. it is only ONE characteristic of the lumber that must be incorporated into the overall which includes those characteristics present in the many other components.. as I mentioned.. where do ya think wolf notes originate? It's from resonant peaks that happen to hit at specific frequencies.

    If someone pickups a hunk of wood and it rings like a bell when bonked, it may well be that one feature that seduces ya, can wind up being the bain of that guitar…

    Hitting wood to determine the “resonance” is like trainer wheels to a novice luthier…. There is so very much more…

    Now not to discourage the contemplating making their own … it’s actually pretty hard to make a turkey these days, because there are so very many excellent products available…

    But just like in motor cars,… one can purchase a superb Porsche at the local dealership.. and mod it all they want.. simple truth is. . it’s never gonna be the equivalent of one that has been performance tune by a professional “team”..


    Rk
     
  9. 57Strat777

    57Strat777 Strat-Talker

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    I was talking about this quote from you:


    "as far as harmonics go... they exist to virtually infinity, BUT since the frequency range of most better rigs drops precipitously once the response rage of the amplifier's speaker is met, around 6000 hZ, it doesn't matter at all. They aren't reproduced, thus they do not exist... it's not the ability to generate the harmonic, it's the ability of the sonic confluence to reproduce it at a useable volume..."
     
  10. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    All of those sound samples sound EXACTLY the same to me.....
     
  11. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    perhaps I'm not conveying what I'm thinking..

    the typical guitar's response is truncated by that of the speaker in the amp... the amp actually is capable of significantly broader range, but the speakers are limited to around 6000 hz... thus it doesn't matter what the guitar's doing, in a practical sense... if it's doing it above 6000 hZ it's may as well be non inexistent. it's not going to be transmitted sonically by the amp..

    remember an electric guitar is a dual system.. a guitar AND an amp... people can talk about one end of the cord all they want.. but without both ends plugged in, it's only half a system..

    It's the guys that want to consider only one factor in an attempt to secure "superb sound"... but without the other half... ya got nuthin' but myopia.

    rk
     
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  12. StratMike10

    StratMike10 Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Well isn't that the whole point of this discussion? to show that different guitars, different woods, different shapes, all sound different because they are... different?
     
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  13. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Most Honored Senior Member

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    We'll yeah, IF we were to stay on point, but. . . being a forum... isn't that verboten?

    r
     
  14. StratMike10

    StratMike10 Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    You mean there is someone who has worse ears than my crappy, tinnitus infested, damaged, and undiscerning tone-unsensitive ears?
     
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  15. StratMike10

    StratMike10 Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    Good point :)
     
  16. Dreamdancer

    Dreamdancer Strat-Talker

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    Everybody can make safe comments when they know the answers to questions beforehand......
     
  17. Guitarmageddon

    Guitarmageddon Dr. Stratster Strat-Talk Supporter

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    I think I just don't know what to listen for, all I hear are notes.....I can tell a single coil from a humbucker but that's about it.....
     
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  18. LawFlow

    LawFlow Strat-Talk Member

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    I can't believe I've read all of this thread so far. Regarding this sound test, the 4 woods or tones are very distinguishable. I wouldn't call the difference insignificant. I'm still not quite sure what the discussion is about, but the OP's playing was very good. As someone said, sounds like a dobro.
     
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  19. albala

    albala Most Honored Senior Member Strat-Talk Supporter

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    oh my
     
  20. dirocyn

    dirocyn Senior Stratmaster

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    I've heard things like this before, so I did a tiny bit of digging. It's actually worse than that, Celestion Greenbacks have a range of 75-5000 hz; Eminence Governors 80-4200 hz. David Gilmore's Fane Crescendo speakers don't have much useful above 6500 hz, although they do still have a little bit of response between 10k & 20.

    I also own a Bugera V5 Infinium, which has a "Turbosound" speaker that I can't find any info about except that the company makes full range powered loudspeakers. I would swear that speaker is making sounds well past 9k (where my own tinnitus lies) and makes the highs harsh and unpleasant. The same amp plugged into an Eminence cab sounds great. My guess is the stock Bugera speaker is a full range speaker and not originally designed an instrument speaker. Now I know what the issue is, I can make it better. Thanks @Ronkirn
     
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