Dunlop fretboard products... What's the difference between lemon oil & conditioner?

Discussion in 'Sidewinders Bar & Grille' started by Wound_Up, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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    Got something I csnt really figure out. I ordered some Dunlop 65 Lemon Oil and I also ordered their 'Fretboard kit' with a bottle of fretboard cleaner/prep & a bottle of deep conditioner oil.

    What's the deep conditioner? It's not lemon oil becsue it's not yellow. So what is it? Anybody have any idea? I've searched for the MSDS documents for each but found nil. So? Anyone know? Thanks.

    Edit: I realize I can contact Dunlop and ask. I'll likely do that next if no one here knows. Thanks!

    Edit #2: I sent a question to support. So we'll see what they say. In the meantime, does anyone have any idea?

    https://www.jimdunlop.com/44616502001-formula-65-care-products/

    Vs

    https://www.jimdunlop.com/formula-65-fretboard-ultimate-lemon-oil/
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  2. thomquietwolf

    thomquietwolf Dr. Stratster Gold Supporting Member Silver Member

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    What happens if you don't do this...
     
  3. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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    don't ask me. I haven't owned guitars long enough to find out lol
     
  4. dvqc1

    dvqc1 Strat-Talker

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    Sorry I'm not going to answer your question the way you probably want me to instead I will let you in on a secret that many guitarist already know. Don't waste your money on fretboard oil or cleaner. You don't need it and it is a way to get you to spend money on useless products. BTW lemon products (especially creams or lotions) are not always yellow. The proper way to clean your fret board is actually with a damp cloth. I do this every time I change strings. When I was young and uneducated I would oil my rosewood and ebony fretboards. I started hanging out with a luthier who taught me many things including the proper way to clean a guitar. My best advice is to go ahead and use what you bought but never buy it again because you are throwing money away. My cousin deals with the people at The Heritage guitar company and even the builders of their fine instruments say to use a damp (not soaking wet) cloth to clean the guitar and fretboard. If you have a particularly grimy fretboard dampen the cloth in soapy water and after you clean it wipe it again with a clean damp cloth.
     
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  5. lbpesq

    lbpesq Strat-O-Master

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    Fretboards will dry out. Per advice from the folks at Alembic, I use 100% pure food grade lemon oil twice a year to condition my Ebony and Rosewood boards. The Dunlop stuff is not 100% pure lemon oil. (Hint: if a product says it is poisonous, it is NOT 100% pure lemon oil). I wipe a SMALL amount of lemon oil on the board and wait 5 minutes. At this point the oil will usually have been absorbed. If any is remaining, wipe it off. A very dry board that hasn’t been conditioned in a long time will suck up more oil and may initially need two or three applications.

    Bill, tgo
     
  6. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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    Lemon oil isn't made from lemons. It's made from mineral oil. So I'm pretty sure it's poisonous anyway, unless it's food grade mineral oil. If there's even such a thing.

    Looking online, it seems that EVERY bottle "food grade lemon oil" I've found is actual citrus oil from a lemon. That's not the right stuff. Lemon oil for wood is mineral oil. Not essential oils from lemons.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  7. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna keep using it though. It's not like I'm using it other week. So far, I've used it twice. Maybe 3 times in 8 months. I didn't pay any more for it than I would for any other lemon oil from anywhere else aka standard lemon oil for wood furniture, etc... So I don't get why everybody gets their panties so bunched up about how much it costs. It's the same price as the other wood furniture lemon oil I have. Plus, every lemon oil I've ever seen is yellow. That, and they don't call the deep conditioner lemon oil. I assume they would if that's what it was.


    Even still I didn't ask if shoud use it. I asked what the difference between these 2 products is.

    There's a thread covering what's going on in this thread. I'm being given unsolicited advice I never asked for. Not sure why. I didn't even imply that I was asking whether to use it or not. I'm using it. That's not up for debate. I've owned & taken care of wood furniture long enough to know what it does.

    I just want to know what the difference is. That's it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  8. Black59

    Black59 Strat-O-Master

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    Good call, everyone has an opinion and it's understandable since we all live in drastically different climates.

    I wish I could help you with your question, but I don't have an answer. I've used Dunlop 65 mineral oil with a lemon scent twice a year for over a decade, it's a must-have for winter with -40 C temperatures and 20% humidity. I haven't used the fretboard cleaning kit unfortunately, sorry.
     
  9. henderman

    henderman Dr. Stratster

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    i make things from rosewood and ebony and they do not need anything except to be kept clean and will live even if not kept clean.

    most people agree an "oiling" will make it look better, no argument, but under no circumstance does it NEED it.

    over oiling is bad news for woods that do not need to be oiled. there is/was a member here who made their board super dark but it ruined the fret slots...

    if you have too, use pure mineral oil which is 4 bux for a massive bottle at the pharmacy.

    but it would be better to buy strings instead of oil in my opinion and my experience as a woodworker.
     
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  10. Black59

    Black59 Strat-O-Master

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    Yeah I agree, I've heard similar stories from local luthiers who say over-oiling can make the fret slots weak and more prone to chip out IIRC.
     
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  11. dvqc1

    dvqc1 Strat-Talker

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    There really isn't much difference and they are both oil based the main difference is probably the type of oil. Of course you are always free to do what you want but there is a huge difference between a fretboard and a piece of furniture. Others have already expanded on my answer. I will say that honestly if I am selling a guitar I will use a wood CREAM on the fretboard if it is rosewood or ebony to make it look better in photos but otherwise I don't bother.
     
  12. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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    Got an answer from Dunlop. They, sent me the MSDS sheets for both products. The Deep Conditioner is:

    96-99% White Mineral Oil
    1-4% Oleamide DEA

    From what I've found, Oleamide DEA is used as a thickening agent for water mainly. So possibly to keep the oil more consistent? I'm not sure.


    Edit: I just looked at the lemon oil. Adding it now.

    The Ultimate Lemon oil is

    More than 95% White Mineral Oil
    Less than 2% Lemon Oil Blend
    *Component C

    *proprietary so its not listed. It's just Component C.

     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  13. Colnago1

    Colnago1 Senior Stratmaster

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    So it is slightly thicker mineral oil? That’s funny.
     
  14. StratoMutt

    StratoMutt Most Honored Senior Member

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    The oldest guitar maker in the US...

    https://www.martinguitar.com/customer-service-2/faqs.html#q03

    03. CAN I USE LEMON OIL ON MY FINGERBOARD?
    Martin Guitar does not recommend using lemon oil on the fingerboard. The acids in lemon oil break down the finish of your guitar. It may also speed the corrosion of the frets and decrease the life of your strings.
     
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  15. Fenderbaum

    Fenderbaum Strat-O-Master

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    I have used regular extra virgin olive cooking oil from the grocery store once. It works fine.
    Was on a cheap guitar tho i found in the trash..
    Did it just to test it.
    after 6 months, it still looks brilliant
     
  16. rocknrollrich

    rocknrollrich Most Honored Senior Member

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    We all know that "Lemon oil" in the guitar community means "mineral oil with a lemon scent"..... right?

    Mineral oil is fine. Millions upon millions of fretboards have had mineral oil applied, and survived.

    I have seen ebony boards that have dried out and cracked, and I have felt some rosewood boards that are so dry, they seemingly suck the moisture out of your hands.

    This isn't difficult. If it's dry looking/feeling, put a little on.
    If it looks and feels fine, leave it alone.

    As far as difference between dunlop products, I would simply use their dunlop 65 (i think it's called).
    It's yellowed mineral oil.

    There is another oily product you can use, but I don't recommend it.
    It's snake oil. I hear it's just snake oil.
     
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  17. lbpesq

    lbpesq Strat-O-Master

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    I use Boyajian Lemon Oil. It is made from cold-pressed lemon rinds and it is used to add flavor to food. It is not mineral oil and it is not poisonous. The heavy terpene molecules in Ebony and lemon oil are similar. Where these larger molecules evaporate is often where cracks start. The lemon oil terpenes replace those that have evaporated out of the wood.

    Bill, tgo
     
  18. The-Kid

    The-Kid Dr. Stratster

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    Yeah......

    Dunlop stuff is great.



    There is an instruction manual with these products so definitely check that out. Their stuff just works and keeps the guitar from body, paint or fretboard clean.
     
  19. Black59

    Black59 Strat-O-Master

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    That's strange... this MSDS sheet says the Dunlop 65 Ultimate Lemon Oil is >90% White Mineral Oil.

    https://images.thomann.de/pics/atg/atgdata/document/specs/189610_safety_data_sheet.pdf
     
  20. Wound_Up

    Wound_Up Custom Title Silver Member

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